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audio Lend me your ears

Discussion in 'Fix This MIX!' started by Smashh, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Smashh

    Smashh Active Member

    How is the bass on this mix , Im trying to trim things back to get a cleaner
    sound without killing the life on this.
    Disregard the toms at the start , they need some taming down low, there is a floor
    tom being played but the mic only picked up the smaller tom and I was trying to
    get the floor tom in there.

    View: https://soundcloud.com/musicmanash/night-and-day-2

    View: https://soundcloud.com/musicmanash/night-and-day

    Tell me someone please how you get the hats to sit back more ,
    they always seem to be too close when I get the snare in ? .
  2. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    what a great track, Smash... Damn.

    It sounds like you may need to sculpt a bit of a pocket ( -1 to -2 db) of between 200-300 hz or so, you've got a lot happening in that range, and I think it may be that parts are fighting each other a bit for definition because of it.

    I think the bass is shy - I'd like to hear some lower end freq's added on that track, maybe a slight boost around 80 hz or so - to give it a bit more bottom-end foundation.

    As far as miking the snare and getting hi hat bleed, if you use a mic like a 57 or 58, and aim it at the snare so that the null point of the mic - which is at the back - is aimed at the hat, you'll minimize the bleed from the hat.


    around 2:45 into the vid

    Also, for this type /style of music, it might not be a bad idea to forget direct miking everything on the kit altogether, and simply use a nice coincidental pair over top of the drums. You could keep the kick miked direct for bottom end definition, but using overheads only for the rest of the drums might get you that nice, smooth, open sound. Consider an XY pair, using nice condensers like 414's, Neumann KM 184's, or even Schoeps CM6's, if you can afford them. The drums on this track don't require a big "in your face " sound like rock does. You might find that using a stereo pair gets you the sound you seek.

    The track sure is pretty though... warm, full, silky... You've captured a very groovy vibe here. Nice job. ;)

    IMHO of course.

  3. Smashh

    Smashh Active Member

    Thanks for the feedback Donny , BTW my name is Ash , I got called smash after crashing a forklift
    at work and f I dont put my name to most things on the net.

    I read your post whilst mixing a song with brushes and I pulled up the OHs and it worked ,
    Ive rode NT5 OHs and between them , my room ,set up and computer, they always sound way harsh to me
    so Ive been avoiding bringing them up . I had a few attempts at EQing them but by the time Im done
    its too far and unnatural. Got this ringing thing around 6 K .( except for brushes, yeah )
    So no 414s or Neuman here .

    Cheers for the link :)

    Ill give that track those EQ adjustments as you suggest and see how it sounds (y)
  4. DogsoverLava

    DogsoverLava Active Member

    Wow - I'm just loving your tracks. Your mixes and arrangements have always reminded me of the band sound on Midnight at the Oasis - that sort of liquid smooth jazz with a touch of masala. Guitar has been awesome on these and your lady's voice -- just tops. If I remember correctly that's you on the guitar too? If so I could see the two of you doing a Tuck and Patti kind of thing -- the versatility of her voice would allow you guys such freedom to explore all kinds of roots and world music as well - blues -- whatever you wanted to do. When I listen to your stuff I wanna start throwing up suggestions of stuff I want to hear you do. I want the acoustic duo - I want the jazz combo - I want the island roots sounds -- You guys could do whatever you liked. It's hard to beat the standards though - and you guys are doing them justice.

    But whatever you do -- please record "Cause we've ended as Lovers" some day. I think you guys could workup a fantastic arrangement, and your lady's voice would be perfect for it.
  5. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Mic placement is key, but if your stuck in the mix, you could try gating the snare direct mic, orl manually removing all but the snare hits, from the track. You can probably get away w it due to the bleed in the overheads, but id try a bar or two first to make sure it doesn't sound chopped up.

    As far as your mics go, those nt5s are ver nice, but they are bright. I'm guessing your in an untreated room? Blankets on the walls can tame to highs. But also, it sounds like you might not have the phase correct on the micing setup.

    Make sure your phase is ok. If you need a guideline on it I'll type one, but if you already know what your listening for, double check. Especially for something like this, your kick and OHs are the sound. The spot snare mic is there in case of a need for more definiton. But really I bet there are some phase cancellations going on, cuz it's a realityivly ambient sounding track, especially if no OHs or room mics are up.

    Overall quite good tho. Can't judge bass I'm on a tablet.
  6. Chris Perra

    Chris Perra Active Member

    Which mic is bleeding the hihat?. The snare? Or all of them?. Once tracked the only way to fix something that is too loud is volume ramping, gates, eq or compression.

    An eq, multi band compressor.. or gate would be my choice. It all depends on how much each one would effect your snare track.

    How did you mic the kit?. What tracks do you have to work with and which ones have the hihat bleed?
  7. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    "...have always reminded me of the band sound on Midnight at the Oasis..."

    Maria Muldaur. Yes. Very similar.

    Great suggestion with "Ended as Lovers"... I'd also love to hear her do Funny Valentine and Autumn Leaves.

    IMHO of course.

  8. Smashh

    Smashh Active Member

    Yes I,d like to hear them too , spending most of my time sussing the mixing process out ;)

    I had a listen to Syreeta , lovely song , I love that era of song . The Stevie First Finale , Inervisions , Talking book
    really take me back vividly , so beautiful !. Background to my first , what was love and losing it and the world was
    a big beautiful mystical place with lots of unknown things to learn. Some of those love songs just make me wanna
    cry now , but with joy because they are so beautiful.
    Wish I was still in that place ..:rolleyes:

    I had 2 overheads , a room mic Rode Nt1a(which I think is ineffective because the space is too small, that channel is off ) and a 57 on top of the snare
    I put the overheads equal distance from the snare, thats about it for setting them up.
    Im still to experimant with where to point them but I know when there is sticks involved next time I will be pointing them away from the hi hats ....lol

    Turned the overheads up and put a gate on the snare as you suggested on this one . I was listening just now and heard my first experience of the acoustic guitar jumping over to the opposite side and it seemed to be the right time of delay
    I liked that ,good fluke .
    I think I ll run with that for other stuff now.
    Sorry about the hiss on the e gtr , I didnt check it enough when I recorded it .
    Actually that stopped me from giving it more presence .. hmmm

    View: https://soundcloud.com/musicmanash/nice-work

    I think that because we are using an electronic kick ,that is where it stops the track from getting to the
    right place as far as nice drum sound.
    Maybe I should put the kick through a speaker instead of just in the earphones , it will save me time
    messing around trying to get it in the picture .

    Thanks for the advice guys , much appreciated :)
  9. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    "Sorry about the hiss on the e gtr , I didnt check it enough when I recorded it ."

    If it were me, I'd leave it in... it sounds like tape. ;)

    This stuff is very cool, Smash. It reminds me so much of early to mid 50's Capitol Records stuff - Sinatra, Nat Cole, Patti Page..

    Have you ever seen the movie Goodnight and Good Luck ? It's about Edward R. Murrow (David Strathairn) and the McCarthy communist witch hunts... and throughout the movie, they show the CBS Orchestra/Jazz Band doing segue music. Sara Vaughn, who fronted the orchestra, is played by Dianna Reeves (man, what a voice! ) and the music is incredible.

    This project you are doing is so very close to this, so smooth sounding. If you haven't seen this movie, you should. You are so very close and reminiscent to this classic sound.

    You've done one helluva job capturing the feel, vibe and sound of that classic era. ;)

    View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbkUXUVRbHE

    View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77LAebh9FM8
  10. Smashh

    Smashh Active Member

    Yeah thats really smooth sounds ,Recordings couldnt get better than that.
    I,m not really attempting to get any particular era sound but more like learning some mixing techniques with the computer here and a mile away from anything like that with sparce smooth arrangement and lush dark ambience , but would love to get close :).

    I fluked upon an ambience today by turning the bright plate reverb pre delay longer and for a moment I could
    picture a room and am pretty pleased , feels like getting closer to that elusive perception of space .
    I ll post something up with that and get your opinion on the ambience.
    It makes it worth while when I hear some good come from experimenting which mostly turns stuff bad...lol

    BTW thanks for the encouraging feedback Donny and Dogs , put a smile on my dial (y)
  11. Smashh

    Smashh Active Member

    What do you think , I think Im starting to hear some space but then again it could be me wanting to hear it and
    imagining its there .
    What changes can you hear that could make it sound like a more realistic space

    View: https://soundcloud.com/musicmanash/nice-work-2
  12. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    I really love the vocal track ... but...and I'm being pretty picky here, the verb on the lead voc doesn't really match the room/verb on the instruments. Now... that's not a deal breaker for me, Smash, as everything sounds very nice... definition, clarity, imaging are all very nice. But, if you want that "jazz combo/singer in the same environment" thing, or are trying to replicate that vibe, then the vocal track sounds different than the instrumentation in terms of ambiance /reflection, reverb.

    That all being said, it still sounds great.

    IMHO of course.

  13. Smashh

    Smashh Active Member

    Ok made some adjustments . how about now?

    View: https://soundcloud.com/musicmanash/nice-work-3
  14. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    LOL... yeah... that's nice...

    Although now... I'd like to hear the vocal dried up just a scoodge - and brought forward just a little bit ....LOL...

    Yeah... see....now we're into that final 5% mix-tweaking that sends most rookie engineers to find another occupation, and most experienced engineers to the nearest emergency room, toothless and with a concussion - as the result of massive amounts of hair pulling and repetitious slamming of our craniums with a car door. ;)

    Look, Smash... I think you've already got it. My musings and the slight changes I suggested aside, because these are of the "personal taste" variety - and if you were to poll 5 different engineers, you're likely to get 5 very different takes on it - I think you've done a fantastic job here, work which you can most certainly be proud and confident of.
    Let me know when this album is done. I will buy a copy. No foolin', either. It would be the first new commercial recording of anything that I will have wanted to purchase in over 5 years.

    By the way...
    If I were to re-open my commercial studio tomorrow - which I'm most certainly not going to do because I really value my personal sanity these days - I'd absolutely want you as a part of the engineering staff.

    Take that for what it's worth. ;)

  15. Smashh

    Smashh Active Member

    When its done and send you a copy anyways , in thanks for helping me get it sounding better (y)
    I enjoy making tweaks and its testing my workflow to see if I can do them without too much
    time spent.
    Thanks Donny,

    Cheers :)

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