Let's do something Outragious

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by audiowkstation, Jul 11, 2001.

  1. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Why don't we pick 2 songs...4 mins ..Any 2 you want...let's take them from the CD and clean them up like they are supposed to sound, Put them on a CD and share them so folks can see where we all are coming from. It would be educational...And I would have no problem doing the CD finals (strait up) and we can all share skills.

    I have shared some before...and running a 100% thumbs up. We could check each others calibration and do this right.

    I would like to do myself...Savage Gardens "Moon and Back" and Vicky Lawrence "Nights the lights went out in Georgia"

    Since thier is no commercial intrest and it would be strictly for demo eval. purposes only...we could put together a Hell of a CD. A final and a blank sent to me and 1.50 Check would cover postage and the burn each. No profit...we could see where they stand..

    Pick something that can be improved upon. (Most popular music)

    Stuff like Janet Jacksons Rythum nation need not apply...it is pretty up there.

    Oldies are best...or new ones that you think suck and can really fix-up.

    Be enough room for 20 folks with one song, or 10 folks with 2...given the 4 min limit.

    Sound like something you would like to do??

    Best to do something everyone has heard.

    Any problems with this?

    Mastering shootout calibration test.

    Do your best remaster and we can see how it goes.

    See if this is "approvable".

  2. I would be interested in that Bill. It would mean going out and buying the CD, downloading an MP3 would not be as good. Is there another way?

    Why don't you pick a song that could use some touching up or if you could, mail out a un-mastered song your self to the folks interested, I would be happy to pay the $3 for the CD and mailing.

    You could be the judge and let us know what you think.
  3. PaulStory

    PaulStory Guest


    I think it's a cool idea... although I think it would be a better idea to use a tune that one of us did as opposed to a "standard". Another thing that would be
    possible is a "before and after" example. Each of us would send in a CD before and after mastering. I assume your proposal would be legal to do as nobody is
    making any money, but if the group decides to go with your suggestion I'd wanna be 100% sure that there would be no liability for either the individuals or Recording.org. Anybody know for sure? One possibility ... I'm recording and mixing an album that will be mastered by Bernie Grundman. If the artist will give me permission this would be cool. We could see how we stack up to Bernie. FWIW I think he has done the best job on my stuff of anyone I have worked with. Although I do master a lot of my own stuff the bigger labels don't let the recording/mixing guy master (and they shouldn't either!! :D ). Maybe someone else has a cool project coming up that will be mastered by a "name" person? It could be a mix of things too. Anyway, great idea! What does the group think?
  4. Tymish

    Tymish Guest

    I might just be into it. So long as we all have the same source material it could be very educational and revealing. So long as we don't view it as a competition. :roll:
  5. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    I agree! A before and after. If we keep the song under 3:30, This would be 14 people that can be involved on a single 80Min. CD.

    Now all we need to do is pick a song and get busy. MP3's at 192Kb/Sec do translate pretty good and picking a song from a premaster will Yield much better results. Logistics in getting the Tune may be a challenge. An FTP server seems like a good way to get it if it is in MP3 format. It will be 5 more months before I can download via cable...so wav. files are pretty much out doing it over the internet for me. I love the idea of being able to compare with Mr. G's work...one of the ultimate comparisons. Not many mastering engineers get the oppurtunity to do the same premaster as Bernie, and compare. Splended idea if you can pull it off. I don't care which genre....sans "gangsta rap". I had my fill of it in the early 90's!
  6. PaulStory

    PaulStory Guest


    I'll ask the artist. The genre is Flamenco/jazz with a great precussion section. The last album I did with them, Salsa Flamenca, charted in the top 25 and is available on Amazon.com. I think their website is http://www.YoungandRollins.com. Bernie G mastered that on too. Great idea Bill!
  7. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff Resource Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    Prince George, BC
    Home Page:
    Guys, awesome idea! Mastering is my dream... I wish I could get in on this. I'm just using PT and some basic stuff but it would be interesting to see how a digi guy could compete in some way.

    You guys are over my head but I have been mixing Pop for a lot of years and would cherish a chance to do this with all of you.

  8. patrick

    patrick Guest

    I'd be very interested in this, purely for purposes of learning. But you'd better check out the legal aspects, because I think that any unauthorized distribution, even if non-profit, is probably against copyright laws. (It's one thing to make a copy of a disk of your own to use in the car or at the cottage, and another thing to give that to a friend).

    For educational purposes, i think that "quoting" might be allowable: i.e. excerpts of songs would probably be more acceptable (legally) than using whole songs. But I'm not an expert on copyright law, so somebody better check on this.

    In any case, this would be a very interesting thing for all us learners out here!
  9. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Excellent genre Paul!

    Good acoustic music. Perfect.

    I hope they are receptive.

    Perhaps a waver could be signed that it is for studio demonstration purposes only. Not for sale, further copy or distribution...and a list of holders on the final sheet and the works will be tuned over to the Record Company/Artist upon demand. Also if one of the participants work is used, no compensation or honorable mention will be required or demanded.

    I am just thinking off all the butt covering aspects.

    I hope they are receptive as this sounds like great music!
  10. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Sounds great- I would love to give it a shot. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather do it through the mail than use MP3's, though. I also think it'd be really in everyone's best interest to have whoever is compiling it come up with two groups of 'after's; one set as is, and one set level matched. I think it'd be a lot more revealing that way. Of course, it would have to be done in a high quality rig, as level changing (lowering all the loud ones to match the softest, or even lowering all to match the original) is another process. Still, it'd be the most educational way of doing it, IMO. Then distribute CD's through the mail. I'd be happy to pay a few bucks to do it that way.
  11. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    I would be real happy to take care of that on my end...

    Leveling could be done at 24 bit res...Play no favorites as it really is not a competition more than calibration and you caqn see where everyone's rooms stand.

    I figure 1.50 ought to cover all mail cost....

    Being in NW arkansas...mail time anywhere in the US is 3 days.

    ...One thing about not doing the leveling would be that we can see how hard everyone hits it. See where the mastering reference between engineers are.

    Strait up would be most meaningful here on the compilation if everyone uses the same song.
  12. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    Feb 12, 2001
    Bloomington, IL
    Count me in! I agree with Jon, it's best to go by mail and have good clean, non-data compressed starting points. I'd love to be able to compare something I did I my "project mastering" room to Mr. G.
  13. DSL

    DSL Guest

    I'm not a mastering engineer but I'm always learning and would love to learn more about the ins and outs. I'd like to be apart and could come up with something fresh that I'm working on that we could use. What do you think?

    Digital Sound Lab :)
  14. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001

    Here is the plan. Let's see if Paul can get clearance. If He can, Then what He can do is send me the track and I will put it on 14 CD's. I will then send them out to you. It will be exactly as I have received it, no edits...just clone copys. He can send it on DAT, ADAT, DASH, CD, whatever is best...CD is preferable. I will then send out the CD's to you and give you plenty of time to do your thing. I will finalize to redbook (non-open standard) because some folks may not be able to add their master to the open CD...depending on software. Send me your track only...(no premaster) and write your Name and address on the CD (with a sharpy) and one blank CD for the compilation. By using track one as the premaster, I can then get the remainder of Mastered versions on the remaining tracks. 27 folks can be involved if the track is 3:20 or less!!

    On the compilation, it will be labled as track 1 Premaster, tk 2 NAME, tk3 NAME..and so forth. Once I get all that have signed up, the next day I can send them all out. I have multiple Plextors so no time problem.

    I figure once we have all settled on a track and I have that track and you have the CD, let's give it 10 days to do your thing. I will not alter your Master whatsoever. I also feel that you should pick your best level. If we normalize it..that would defete the purpose..the masters will be untouched.

    I figure the shipping both ways is 3 bux. I provide one blank, (a buck) and you provide the other for your complilation CD.

    4 bux.

    Now...we just have to settle on a song.

    Here is my info for mailing....paste it and save it somewhere handy.

    Bill Roberts
    PO Box 1106
    Alma, Arkansas

    As long as I have the song, we can get busy.

    I figure from the time I get the song and we have all signed up (maybe email me titled sign up for project)your copy will be shipped right out.

    I figure the whole processes to take about 15 days from the time you get your CD. Also those who are out of the country or in Canada or 49th/50th state...be sure to consider added postage and time. Those who are out of the US...it will take longer and slow the project down...but if folks want to wait for me to get all the masters...I have no problem.

    Logistics had to be thought out...this will work.

    ......Now...which song.......!
  15. Sounds like a winner. But do we really need it to be 3:30 sec long? I would think 1:30 to 2:00 would be long enough but it really doesn't matter I guess.

    Do you want us to send you our mailing address first? And with the mastered version we send you do you want us to mail in the $4?

    I also think there should be a vote on the best sounding master. You could mail the comp CD out without saying who's is who's and let everyone take a vote. After all the votes are in you can let everyone know which tracks were done by whom. Then that person can let everyone else know what gear they used to master the song with.
  16. PaulStory

    PaulStory Guest


    If it were up to me I wouldn't want to turn this into a contest (voting). I want this to be cooperative, not competitive. And I'm sure we will all form opinions as to
    what the best master is. I do think it's a good idea for everyone to share what they did (with what gear) after the CD comes out (or potentially include a piece of paper with the CD with this info.
  17. JingleJungle

    JingleJungle Guest

    As the new arrival in this group, first of all I salute all the fine people that populate this forum, some which I've already met elsewhere (small world, innit?).

    As far as the "outrageous" idea is concerned, I would dearly love to test my studio equipmt vs. other better calibrated setups... It would be extremely instructive and give me a clue re. where my chops / equipment stand.

    I live in Switzerland, I'll gladly come up with the dough (as a proper swiss banker always does ;) ) an' play, if permitted.

  18. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Second that- not a contest! If we don't do a level matched set (and I meant in addition to, not instead of untouched masters), then I'd urge everyone to level match in their DAW before too much listening- _anyone_ can be swayed by a half dB or so, and I think it'd be more educational to see what everyone did to the song *musically*.

    This will be fun, I think- let's not say what was used on our masters until a week or so after they get mailed out- I'd like to do my initial listening with as little info as possible!

    Originally posted by Paul Story-Barking Spider Audio:

    If it were up to me I wouldn't want to turn this into a contest (voting). I want this to be cooperative, not competitive. And I'm sure we will all form opinions as to
    what the best master is. I do think it's a good idea for everyone to share what they did (with what gear) after the CD comes out (or potentially include a piece of paper with the CD with this info.
  19. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    As far a s matching goes...you know we all have the tools to ck RMS and peak levels on the finished CD. I could look at the RMS levels and put a 5 second 440HZ at that average level between engineers...like tk1 ref tone to ave, tk 3 engineer, tk 4 ref tone to ave, tk 5 engineer. That would be really easy. Just run the statistical analysis in mono, look at the ave, set the tone at that level and cut it. Take less than an hour to do everyones. That way you can go to tk3, then tk 5 and match the level of the tine with your DB meter to say 90dB.....well thats how I do it anyway..

    Sound cool?
  20. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    .....sorry for the typos (damn fat fingers...)

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