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Let's go Blumlein!

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Mundox, Nov 26, 2003.

  1. Mundox

    Mundox Guest

    OK.I have this session coming up recording a trio. Drums, electric guitar, and baritone sax. They want to record live playing in the same room facing each other.
    The room we are gonna use is decent with a high ceiling. So I was thinking putting the guys in a triangle facing each other and using the blumlein set up with two royer ribbons in the middle of the band, front facing the drummer, back capturing the guitar amp and the sax. Now, I have never used this technique before and I don't want to look like a jackass after setting it up just to find out it does not work. Has anybody here used a similar approach with a similar set up?
    I am also using drum mics (not toms) and close mics for each instrument but the blumlein is going to be the main sound of the record. I have heard the blumlein reduces the low end, but to what extend?Can I compensate with a seperate omni?.Should I just forget about trying to be a Tonmeister and stick with whatever has worked good enough technique?Any input is welcome.
  2. Yanshufim

    Yanshufim Active Member

    I did several recordings of a jazz-fusion quartet (electric GTR, Percussion, drums and electric bass) with only 2 mics. moreover, they were 2 c1000's, which are not considered the holy grail of tonmeisters. every instrument except the drums had some form of amplification and the balance in the room was good. The recording was'nt great (especially the bass was a bit unfocused) but it was much, much better than everyone expected. Bottom line, if you have a good balance in the room and a good stereo pair you have at least 80 percent of what you need. Use the spot mics only as necessary. Have'nt tried Blumlein stereo, but who knows, you might get 95 percent of what you need with this set-up.
  3. clintrubber

    clintrubber Guest


    I'm curious as well how - did you position these two mics ? I get the impression for your recording the players were not facing each other, right ?

    For rehearsals we often stand in a triangle
    as well and positioning a few mics is always a a bit of a challenge. I'm in '421/'57-land. Instruments are drums, elec. gtr and amplified dble bass.


  4. Mundox

    Mundox Guest

    I take it nobody used blumlein technique here. :s:
  5. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Just because nobody has answered your question doesn't mean that nobody knows or uses the blumlien technique.

    Well, seeing as you have no experience using this technique, even if someone were to tell you exactly how to do it, it still is very possible to not get it right or know what it is you need to do to make minor adjustments thus likely making you look like a jackass anyway. If you want to avoid looking like a jackass and appear to know what your doing, then I would study up on this mic technique and gain the kind of experience that is needed before you attempt to do this on a client who is on the clock. Or mabe even do the truthful thing and admit to the client that you want to try something you have never done before and to try it off the clock to see if it works for you.
  6. Yanshufim

    Yanshufim Active Member

    Peter, The players *were* facing each other. Once I placed the microphones at ear height at the corner of the room, near the bass amp and one of the guitar amps, but facing the drums and percussion, arranged "sort of" NOS. Another time I put each mic in another side of the room, as you would do with a spaced omni arrangement. The second option is less mono compatible but still sounds nice. You must remmember that this recording was not intended to sound professional but to "catch the spirit" of the performance. the point is, if you mix the two room mics with spot mics or even DI's (and you don't need too many of them), you can get something that sounds better in my opinion, than close-micing each instrument and each part of the drum-set and trying to recreate the picture that *was* in the room.
  7. Mundox

    Mundox Guest

    AudioGaff believe me I did study on this mic technique. I did not ask to be explained how to set it up.
    I have been recording for few years now and never tried, or needed to try this method. This time it looks like I can take advantage of its application. I am sure if I decide to go for it I will be OK, since it really is not a huge deal. I just wanted to see if anybody has experience with it, and if they liked using this method. Sharing experiences is what this place is for right?
  8. clintrubber

    clintrubber Guest

    Thanks Yanshufim for the additional info ! Sure sounds like a way to capture good room-tone.
    Which roomtone did you favour, the spaces omni's or the NOS-positioning ? Could imagine the spaced omni's required narrowing the panning more to avoid a too broad left/right distribution of the instruments... (guessing here)

    And BTW, I like NOS ! :)
    (Nederlandse Omroep Stichting...)



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