Lexicon Effects Processor I/O Level Set...Woooo!

Discussion in 'Tracking / Mixing / Editing' started by mark4man, Jul 4, 2004.

  1. mark4man

    mark4man Active Member

    OK...

    This makes no sense to me.

    I'm bustin' the ceiling with my Effects Processor's minimal settings

    I'm running the Lexicon MPX-500 w/ an Echo Audio LAYLA 24/96 PC AI. I'm looping my dry, pre-recorded signal out of the Layla's 3/4 Outs...in & out of the Lexicon; & back into the Laya's 3/4 Ins (all balanced.)

    I have the Layla's Nominal Output (for 3/4) set to +4dB.

    I have the Lexicon's Input Trim fully counterclockwise.

    I have the Layla's Nominal Input (for 3/4) set to +4dB.

    These settings cause audible clipping in the recorded input signal within my DAW (SONAR XL) (& also visible within the meters both in SONAR & the Layla's Console.)

    The Lexicon's User Guide states that the MPX-500's output level must be set at 0dB (Unity Gain, fully counterclockwise) , for an input device of +4dB, which is precisely where I am.

    What's the deal?

    Of course, I can rectify the clipping problem by attenuating either the Layla's Ins or Outs; & then rolling the Lexicon's Input Trim up to just below peak...but then I'm not taking full advantage of the full dynamic range of the system, right?

    The Lexicon does have a -12dB Output Level setting, but the User Guide states that is to be used with -10dB input device.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,

    mark4man
     
  2. dabmeister music

    dabmeister music Active Member

    I tried using that adjustment (+4 db) when I first got my Layla. It was too hot for the signal chain. In theory, this may work if your gear handles that as the norm. But with todays equipment, it seems to me that most gear works exceptionally well under -10db. If you're destined to go that route, then I'd do some adjusting until I find a level that'll suit my taste. IMHO, I'd back off on one or the other (or both) as far as having the levels set fully opened. I have and use the Lexicon MPX-1/110 and have'nt had any issues with level settings as far as I know. The effects sound very good IMO. Manuals are nessesary to reference by but in the real world, you'll have to experiment to achieve what your after.
     
  3. missilanious

    missilanious Guest

    Theres a thing called digital scales. These scales as oppesed to a analog DBm ,DBV,or DBu scale were 0Db is never considered the ceiling of that gear. You see alot of boards and analog gear in generall that have headroom, which sometimes extends to +26DBm, alot of Manley gear gives you at least +30DBm of headroom. Because a digital scale stops at 0DBFS your AD/DA converters are calibrated to accomodate to the headroom of analog gear. Say in my case, my AD/DA is a Rosetta 800 which via internall jumpers I can change the callibration level, out of the factory its set at -16DBFS=0DBm. This is done so you can use your analog gear at its optimun level, using some of its headroom. If both scales were equal you would be recording very cold and would be clipping alot just to have a peak hit 0DBm on your analog gear. So they gave you a scale; so in my case I could use 16DBm of headroom in my gear before it hits 0 on my digital scale and clips. OK thats explained; now heres your problem, if you send those tracks out on 3&4 at 0DBFS (0 on your sonar meters) its really coming out at +18DBu because its calibrated at -14DBFS=0DBu which also equals 0DBFS=+14DBu then add another 4DBu because its a +4 output (if a peice of gears set to recieve a +4 it shoots the signal down 4DB, this is done with pro gear so you get a hot signal out of the the +4 gear, which gets shot down 4DB. Which in essence gives you the same signal that was being read on the meters of the gear it was sent out on just with 4DB less of self noise which keeps the dynamic range better (more self noise means less dynamic range)) So the moral of the story is if your sending it out as 0DBFS, send it out at -14DBFS and you won't clip the lex's ins.Or set the outs at -10db, do the math and the level difference between a +4DBu and -10DBV output is about 12db, as +4DBu is 12db's hotter than a -10DBV out; go figure. And by the way this was on page 68 on the Layla manual without such detail. RTFM RTFM...................
     
  4. mark4man

    mark4man Active Member

    dabmeister music & missilanious,

    Damn...

    I was busy responding to a couple of other posts; & plumb forgot to check my own.

    Thanks very much.

    What I did to rectify the condition was to attenuate the output of the Layla, so as not to clip the input of the Lexicon...for all the reasons stated (due to the the interfacing of the analog & digital gear...with it's different nominal signal levels, etc.)

    I had done so previously on my own, but was curious why following convention from the manuals didn't work. But, as dabmeister pointed out...we work in the real world & adjust accordingly.

    Thanks again,

    mark4man
     

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