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Long run to recording Piano

Discussion in 'Piano' started by audiokid, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Hi guys,

    I'm wondering if anything is different with a DAW and long runs to mics in another room where the piano is. I need to run about 40 or more feet to Royer 122 v's, all into my FF800 and soon to be Sequoia 11.

    Any suggestions on how to get the best signal into my DAW would be so helpful.

    (y)
     
  2. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    With reasonably good 40' cables you shouldn't have any noticeable loss.

    The Royer has about 200-ohms output impedance.
    Canare StarQuad has nominal capacitance of 150pf/m
    40 ft. is a little over 12 meters

    Plug those numbers in here and see the interaction between capacitance / cable length / and source impedance. You get a feel for where the high frequencies in particular start rolling off.

    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-cable.htm

    Informative calculator without all that pesky math.


    SOURCES

    http://www.royerlabs.com/mics/R-122V.html

    http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=54
     
  3. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    When I had to record the piano upstairs I just used my 100' Horizon live snake. This isn't the world's greatest cable by reputation, but it's in good shape, all connectors nice and clean, etc. I have been thinking of getting a snake made up with higher quality cables, but I really couldn't hear and significant noise or detect and high frequency rolloff. And of course the live snake has sends for headphones already built in. I figure a better snake is way down the list of studio improvements for me.

    Another point - All the guys over in the acoustic forum are always flying a few miles of cable for classical performances. If you have good quality cable 40' is nothing.
     
  4. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    I have to agree with bob on this one. 40 feet is not a long run. Plus the Royer 122 has a fairly large voltage output for a ribbon.
     
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I messed up on my measurement... I have to go double that, 80' to 100' like what Bob needed. Sounds like it's still no problem.

    Thanks guys,
     
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Second question,

    For stereo, is it better to run 2 separate runs all the way or do I have an option for a stereo cable, then split it once I'm in that room?
     
  7. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Not sure I am on the same wavelength....Are you asking about running a single mic cable with L and R mono feed vs running 2 mic cables with one for L and one for r?

    With two twisted pair mic cables (differential runs), you have the added advantage of noise rejection. I would not do it in one cable, thats like running a 100' Guitar cord, it is likely to pick up noise.
     
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Yes, two single 80' mono cables (Canare) directly to the mics. Or, what has the best results, two single cables directly to the mics or a 80' stereo cable to the room ( mini snake) I guess, then use a couple of 8' to the mics?

    Sorry for not being clear, I'm thinking as I type.
     
  9. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    I don't think you want to sacrafice the the noise rejection, I would run two mic cables, one to each mic.
     
  10. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    dvdhawk,

    Thanks for the links. I may want to use the cables for other recital locations. Any suggestions?
     
  11. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Okay, sounds like Canare Star Quad Microphone cable is a good choice. Just now wondering if this is ideal for doing some location work as well?
     
  12. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Link555,

    I'd consider asking Cucco to make me up some but I'm guessing the shipping from Eastern USA to Prince George, BC would get a bit pricey. You are just 8 hours from me. Who do you buy your cable from, Annex maybe?

    Any recommendations?
     
  13. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Rp electronics has stock I was just there yesterday, nice cable. This will work just fine.
    They have Neutrik connectors too...

    https://www.rpelectronics.com/

    Wire & Wire/Cable Management: Wire - Audio

    CA-L-4E6S-BLK Qty: 1 - 99
    US $1.46 FT
    Qty: 100 +
    US $1.23 FT
     
  14. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Sorry I was confused on what your asking, when you said mono- I assumed you meant one conductor (ie guitar cable)

    Now I get you, sorry no sleep last night...
     
  15. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    FWIW, I run my Royer SF12 and my AEA R88 through my 100' snake all the time attached with as much as 50-75 feet of cable between the snake and mic (175' or so total at max) and have never had a problem with signal loss or degradation.

    If you'd like, I can find out about the cost of shipping to BC. For regular postal service, it shouldn't be much... <$10USD or so. I'll gladly send you a pair of my thin cables to try out. (A short pair....they don't grow on trees you know...;-))

    J.
     
  16. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Also in the FWIW category...
    I make a lot of 2 channel snakes. Mogami has a great 2 channel snake cable with its biggest weakness being the robustness. (I've used mine in the field for a few years with no needs for repairs).

    Canare makes an awesome 2 channel snake but it's bulky as hell. It's sturdy enough that, if I were falling off a cliff, I'd be happy to hang on to the Canare snake for at least an hour or two...
     

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