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Mackie 1200f Daisy-Chain

Discussion in 'Recording' started by doubleJ, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    I saw that you can daisy-chain the 1200f and the manual says that it can support 64 i/o. Does that mean that it doesn't have a problem connecting 4+ interfaces together?
    Does anyone have experience with this? Does it require more than one firewire card?
    I've read about people have problems going higher than 3 with other interfaces and I'm thinking about ways to get the magic 48-60 inputs.
  2. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    What are you recording that you would need 48-60 physical inputs?

    Not being judgemental, just curious?
  3. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    At our church, we have 18 instrument ins (mic, di, direct), 24 singing, and another 6-8 speaking mics. That's 42 ins.
    I was trying to find gear that would accommodate either recording everything separately (for later mixdowns) or to even run the sound (whether it be foh, monitor, video, etc...).
    The closest thing that I've found, thus-far, is the 24io, but that still requires additional pres.
    If we would do anything, monitor-wise, with it, we have 16 monitor sends, too.
    It's always been kind of a pipe dream of mine to be able to make custom mixes of whatever we want. We have foh, monitor, and video. Why not have computer, too?
  4. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member


    24 singing, all individually mic'ed? Holy Sundays!
    I have enough trouble with 5.

    You at some big name church where the average attendance outdoes a football (soccer) game here?
  5. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    Well, I will admit that I don't like the individual mics. The audio department has been trying to get hanging choir mics for years, but everyone is still on 58s. We're waiting on building a drum room (personally, I want to go with electronic drums).
    I'm also looking forward to the day when we are all in-ear.
  6. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    I don't think the 1200F has a problem, although that's probably a question for the Mackie forums. Whether your computer can cope is a separate issue.

    On the occasions I need more than 24 channels, I slave together a pair of my HD24XR hard disk recorders. That gets me 48 channels at 48KHz or 24 channels at 96KHz. In that way I am not at the mercy of FireWire having to perform glitch-free in and out at 56Mbps to disk for hours on end.

    Post processing that many channels is another story...
  7. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Holy SNOT!

    24 individual singing mics? That ranks up there with the most absurd things I've ever heard. You'd think in Branson of all places, the audio department would know how to capture 24 voices without using 1 mic per person.

    Also - 1 instrument per every 1.3 people?

    Here's my motto - the "audio department" would do well to listen to it:

    Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
  8. Greener

    Greener Guest

    Though 24 individual mics gives you the ability to turn down 23 singers with cat in a wind tunnel syndrome.
  9. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Bad singers in Branson?

    That's like saying ugly models/actresses in L.A.

    It just doesn't happen...

    On the other hand, it does give you the opportunity for each diva....oops, I mean "singer" to get "more me" in the cans...
  10. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    It's not our decision. We've been pushing for choir mics for a couple years, now.
    Well, the drums have 7 mics. That sways the average a little. The keyboard has a left/right send. The piano has 2 mics. The lead guitar has an electric line and an acoustic line. The organ has 3 mics, too.
  11. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    yeah...someone's going overboard.

    For live sound.....a L/R send for keyboard?? Acoustic AND electric on lead?? Organ - 3 mics??? Geez, somebody's trying to "over-compensate" for something. (Don't worry JJ - I know it's not your call.)

    Your best be is to find the person responsible for this mess, kick him squarely in the groin and while he's down, go yank all of this crap and throw it in a muddy puddle and then start from scratch.
  12. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    Well, I will respectfully disagree with you on a couple points.
    1: The keyboard sounds beautiful in stereo. I noticed the difference on recordings the first day it was done.
    2: The electric an acoustic obviously isn't played at the same time (we have an acoustic rhythm guy), but there are a lot of songs where acoustic lead is nice (maybe some spanish guitar). The gut strings sound great.
    I will agree with the organ, but I would remove it completely.
    And as far as the "audio department" is concerned...
    It's not me, I'm but a lowly audio editor, we do have some guys that are serious into engineering and tech (the head guy ran road with Chaka Kahn for years). And, whereas I might not agree with the way everything is done, I will admit that they have some serious smarts about this stuff. But, with that being said, not everything is the perfect way anyone in the audio department wants it. We deal with space, staffing, money, etc... just like anyone/anywhere else.
    I'm just thankful for the motu traveler. It's been indispensable for our computer recording. The editing process, now, is night/day different than when I started, nearly 4 years ago. We were recording a live cd, from the foh mix, through a tc electronics finalizer (which is partially still true, except for using the video mix instead of foh), but I was editing from that eq'd, mixed, finalized, cd. Now I have a direct split from the wireless receiver into the computer. It's as raw as I'll ever get. I'm looking for the day that receivers output over aes-ebu, now.
    Of course, we've ventured way off the topic at hand, but it's a nice conversation, anyway.

    Also, keep in mind, that we're not just doing live sound, here. These services are edited for television, too. Plus, the point of bringing up the multitude of inputs is for the ability to track the music, at some point, for later music release. I don't know if it will ever happen, but I certainly would like it.
  13. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    with that many inputs you realy have very limited choices. nothing will daisy chain firewire for that many not even the RME Fireface.

    ideally (as we do alot of large church set ups) is the RME madi card to (numerous options)
    EG: digital console with MADI, or Adat.
    Adat.aes/ebu AD/da converters.

    a few other options
    Motu 424 card with various ad/da of thiers
    Pro fools HD (if like like not being a good steward)

    but it sure is NOT anything firewire


    PS at our church we didnt have hanging mics either (when we actually had a choir) instead 4-5 gather around a mic x 4 groups and they were broke up based on their vox.
  14. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    As much as our video department would like to go protools, it will (hopefully) never happen. Honestly, our pastors aren't much for digital foh, anyway. Our video console is a yamaha dm2000 and our monitor console is a yamaha m7cl (both digital). I'm not sure why they don't want a digital foh, but it sure would be nice.
    I was originally looking at the 424 card, but they don't have any pre interfaces that chain that high. I guess we could use a 24io and just branch off of direct outs, but I was trying to keep the signal chain as short as possible. Honestly, though, it would probably be the best option. At that point, I would probably break off the m7cl, as it's the most accessible.
  15. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I've done 42 channels through daisy chained Firefaces with no problem (at 44,100) and had room to go.
  16. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    Are you referring to chaining 42 firefaces worth of built-in pres or chaining firefaces where you have external pres connected via lightpipe?
  17. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Fireface 1 -
    Channels 1-8: Millennia HV3D-8
    Channels 9-10 - Built-in Pres
    Channels 11-18 - Mackie Onyx 800R - via lightpipe
    Channels 19-26 - Focusrite ISA 428 (4) and Aphex 107 (4) via lightpipe

    Fireface 2 -
    Channels 1-8 - Grace 801
    Channels 9-10 - Built-in pres
    Channels 11-16 Focusrite platinum (don't recall the model - but it had 8 mic inputs and lightpipe - it was borrowed.)

    It was for an outdoor festival with 4 stages. Ran it for about 4 hours off and on with no problems.
  18. doubleJ

    doubleJ Active Member

    Now, that is something that I was trying to steer away from, but maybe it would work well...
    There are just full lightpipe devices (m-audio profire lightbridge comes to mind) that could just connect pres via lightpipe.
    Might this be a more logical/stable way of doing it?
    That's how the dm2000 is set up.
  19. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Well...let's get into how you're routing your signal.

    Are you splitting the FOH to go 1 leg to live sound and 1 leg to recording? Which console are you using? Do you have the digital and analog outs available to you? Do you have splitters?

    If it were me and I were trying to record that many tracks at 1 time and be isolated from FOH, I'd get a few tranformer isolators, set up a mixer and run straight into a couple Alesis HD 24s then dump them into a DAW and do post later.

    You're not trying to mix 24 vocalists in harmony all at one time to 2-track, right? That's why you want so many input channels??

    One of the things I like about the Fireface is that you can set up amazing monitor mixes and as long as you're careful with setting the gain, your FOH guy can get a stable collection of stems or (with the right amount of DA converters or digital inputs on the board) a complete multi-track split of all of your work.

    That's how I did the jazz show - I did the FOH with the outputs from the RMEs. I bused drums together and sent them as a stem and so on. It wasn't 100% ideal, but with more DACs, I could have had my cake and eaten it too.
  20. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    He asked for 64 I/O cant happen on ANY firewire
    2 RME FF 800 will work thats only 48 i/o not 64


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