mastering problem

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by grandpiano, Apr 2, 2005.

  1. grandpiano

    grandpiano Guest

    When I master to get a good level, the levels do rise around -0.3, but the sound gets harsh, the music gets forceful, even when volume is low. Especially when using (Me loudmaximiser). Is there any way to keep the smoothness of the music, when raising the volume level up on your final mix, or should i turn things down in the mix, so when I do master, it automatically comes out. When I turn up the levels. I am using,

    2 Avalon vt737's
    Dbx 786 Mic pre
    Crane Ibis EQ
    Prism Sound Mla-2 Mastering Compressor
    A lot of wave plugins in Wavelab 5
  2. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    why are you using mic pre's in mastering?
  3. Massive Mastering

    Massive Mastering Well-Known Member

    And why would you be using plugins in WaveLab with an Ibis and an MLA2?
  4. grandpiano

    grandpiano Guest

    I'm sorry, I'm not using the Mic Pre In mastering, I was just stating my gear, So do you only use plugins to mix with and not master?
  5. OTRjkl

    OTRjkl Guest

    IMO, you should be able to do just about anything you need to with just the Ibis, Prism and a software Limiter...
  6. grandpiano

    grandpiano Guest

    Thank you, appreciate the feedback!!!!!!!!!!
  7. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Member

    Yes, you probably have a lot of negative feedback in your equipment.
  8. Massive Mastering

    Massive Mastering Well-Known Member

    :?: :?:
  9. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Member

    Yeah, maybe he smoked a whole beatle in his pipe?
    ...I guess that would make people say "Wow..."
  10. That was a sarcastic "wow." I guess that wasn't obvious in the way I typed it.

    Really though, I mean, who are these people. These questions are ridiculous and this board lately seems to be flooded with SPAM. The first reply was "Why are you using mic pres in mastering?" This kind of thread is a little absurd, no?

    I guess I'm the one missing something... at least these threads are comical! hey, carry on!
  11. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Well there are different levels of experienced people posting here. Some know some things and others don't know as much. They are here to try and learn. Most of us learned by watching other do it and listening. Most of the new people don't have this kind of mentoring because there just isn't that many studios around and there are more and more students of audio every month. I and we are here to learn from each other if we can. So let's not be too harsh on newbies. It doesn't mean they don't have to do their homework. There is a ton of info in these threads, one just has to sit and read. I spend 2 hours a day researching, reading, and trying to learn new things. It's never ending. The more you learn, the more you find that you have to learn.

    sometimes people get caught up in the "if i buy the right gear, I'll be able to do it."

    So don't rush into something that you aren't quite ready for. Take your time. Listen to a ton of stuff. read, study, tweek. repeat until happy.
  12. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Member

    There must be a lot of old and very experienced vinyl cutting mastering engineers that would love to pass on their knowledge to younger engineers that would appreciate the opportunity?

    Best Regards
  13. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Well-Known Member

    Why is it that everyone wants to do it all? Be the performer, the recording engineer, the mastering engineer, the A&R guy, the graphic's designer and the sales rep?

    In my experience no one person is so talented that they can do all of these with the same level of competency,

    Have computer software companies and everyone concerned with the music business finally convinced the general public that they can "do it all?" and that it is all soooooo simple that the rest of us in the music business has been ripping people off for all these years?

    He at Acoustik Musik, we do mastering and restoration. We leave the writing of songs, the performing of songs, the mixing of songs, the graphics and all the rest to other professionals in allied fields.

    I am simply amazed at what I hear at GC and Sam Ash. People are told that for a couple of thousand dollars they can become instant record companies and turn out professional sounding hit cds and that with an "all-in-one" unit from AKAI or Roland they can become a recording engineer, a mastering engineer and if they spend an additional $295.00 they can replicated their music as well.

    Having a word processor on your computer does not make you a writer. Have a computer full of music software does not make you a recording engineer or a mastering engineer let alone a musician or arranger overnight but many people assume that by taking home this bundle of equipment that by the weekend they will have their first "million seller" album.

    Recently I have noticed that a lot of the music I am hearing is poorly recorded, poorly mixed, poorly written and poorly played and that many people have no idea of how really bad there stuff is. I always thought that one basic principal of music was that it was a way for the musician to communicate their feelings and passions to others. The message is getting garbled by the process as of late and I am not sure that most people are good at critiquing their own attempts at creating music. They wrongly assume that the M.E. can take this mess and by passing their magic wand over it the music will suddenly come to life. We are doing more and more "sonic surgery" and less and less real mastering.

    MTCW and FWIW
  14. niros

    niros Guest

    I can't speak for all the nubies here but I have a passion for everything that has to do with audio engineering, from editing to producing to mixing to mastering. Hoping that one day I will be able to make a little money to justify all the time and effort spent learning what I love to do, and if I can't then I'll still be happy because I was doing somthing I enjoy the whole time.

  15. Massive Mastering

    Massive Mastering Well-Known Member

    Well said, Tom. I couldn't agree more. While I think that everyone should know, and therefore be able to act in practical manner on many fronts, there is a definite advantage to specializing...

    Personally, I've learned more about mastering since I started specializing in it than all of what I thought I knew about it when I was the "all in one" guy. I hardly ever touch a console any more.

    Well, I do a lot of live work and live tracking, but still - Even at the performing arts center, I'm an audio guy - Sure, I know how to run the light board, but that doesn't make me a lighting designer. I also know how to tie a few knots, but I'm not a rigging specialist.

    I think it comes with practical experience... I used to want to do it all also.
  16. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    People want to do it all because they now have the tools at their disposal. I'm a try to do it all guy in lots of things. It depends on what the purpose is. I like to fish but that doesn't mean I want to catch and try to feed myself every meal everyday. There is a difference between guys fiddling with their recordings and guys tweeking for a living. If my living depended on my product sounding and looking the best it can, I'm not going to go to a guy who just bought an MBOX and tweeks on the weekends and will throw in artwork for free. But If I just want to go out for the weekend and catch a couple of fish and get outside, I don't think I need to hire a professional fisherman to help me land a trout.

    My clients are recording artists that make music for a living. I don't really concern myself with guys tweeking on the side and if I can help a little and make it a little more enjoyable for them, I don't see the harm.
  17. Zilla

    Zilla Active Member

    ...since misery loves company...

    Logic dictates that, somewhere, there must be the planet's worst practicing doctor. But what is worse is that someone has an appointment with him first thing tomorrow morning! Likewise, poorly crafted music survives because people buy it anyway. Amazing! I don't know how today's recordings can motivate people to seperate themselves from their cash. Oh well, enough grumbling.
  18. chriscavell

    chriscavell Guest

    John, your views and experience in this regard parallel my own to a 'T'. :cool:

  19. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Well-Known Member

    Be prepared. It is happening in the Midwest and it is moving twords the coasts (the opposite of what reason and logic would tell you). More and more people who make their living doing music are trying to do it all themselves. It maybe as simple as having a small demo studio for quick demos or for making some quick recordings for a scratch track to take with them to a recording gig, then more and more equipment and finally they decide to start doing all their own mixdowns and mastering. The number of people who make their daily living from music and who are now trying to do it all is AMAZING. So hold onto your clients while you have them but be forwarned that things they are a changing and probably not for the better. Biggest reason most musicians quote"artistic freedom" (what ever that means) and people are becoming more and more CHEAP! Bands that use to think mastering was the end all be all read Bob Katz's book, or an article in Mix or EQ and figure what the heck I can do it so they try and it sounds good to them and after all aren't they the ones who have to be pleased?

    I am not trying to be a doom sayer but things are changing and the number of new studios opening is going down and the number of studios closing their doors is going up and the number of "real" musicians having their own studios is going up faster than you can imagine. It is a DIY world. Just go to Home Depot on a Saturday and see all the home "craftsmen" buying out the store. The same thing is happening at GC and Sam Ash. Heck all you have to do is join a web board ask questions and tomorrow you can be a mastering engineer or a recording engineer or a commercial graphic artist. All it takes is having the right equipment and the right advertising and THERE YOU ARE!!!!!! or so the salemen would have you believe.

    Just my thoughts.

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