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meter bridge, how and why?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by hd99fatboy, Feb 26, 2002.

  1. hd99fatboy

    hd99fatboy Guest

    how necessary is it and why?
    I'm using the dm24 along with Sonar and has metering, but I see it also can add a meter bridge.
    being very green to all this ain't helping me much...
    I mean I can grasp the initial concept but...
    thanks again
     
  2. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey Buster - I too have a DM-24 AND a meter bridge - neither has passed any audio since I bought them 2 months ago, but that's not their fault (major upheaval in studio, upgrade to 5.1, digital mixer, new DAW, several new instruments, etc)

    The display on the front of the DM-24 can show you everything you need to see, just not very big, well, or simultaneous. When I was using mostly software (Samplitude 2496, Cake 9, etc.) I wanted timecode display large so when I was recording, possibly NOT at the mix position, I could tell from across the room where I was in the song. I did this by enlarging the window for time code, but that takes away from other things I needed to see when up close to the monitor. The main reason I can see for a meter bridge, then: You can always see levels for all inputs, or all tape returns, or all masters/subs/auxes, plus timecode that can be read from several feet away, and still set the LCD display to show another parameter you may want to keep an eye on. This saves a bunch of monkey motion with switching things all the time, and allows you to concentrate more on crafting the song, not missing your cue for the lead guitar part you're trying to lay down, etc. Yeah, there are times when you should close your eyes and use your ears, but there are other times when all the feedback (not the bad kind) you can get is almost enough. It's the same with dual large monitors on a DAW - You can get by with only one, but once you've tried 2 21" monitors you'll rip anybody's lungs out that tries to take them away... Steve
     
  3. hd99fatboy

    hd99fatboy Guest

    Cool insight knightfly, had that in mind, just wondering if I really need it at the moment, them things am expensive.

    I guess theres not really much of an alternative...
     
  4. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    I think you're right - If Tascam hadn't been so eager to build the DM-24 to a price point, there could have been a similar-priced but more flexible alternative - an XGA video output. That would have been a neat approach, then you could have almost any display the LCD offers (or more) available on a 21" monitor for about the same cost as the meter bridge. But, they left other even more useful things out, apparently in the heat of getting it to market and making it cheaper that anybody else's comparable unit - such as not having the ability to assign the 8 buses to the stereo out - say what ? Who hasn't used the extra buses on a 4/8 bus board to do submixes for vocals, drums, instruments, etc. so you can change the balance on an entire group without disturbing the group balance, using only 2(stereo) faders? How the hell do you do that if you can't send the subs to the stereo masters? On a brighter note, it sounds like the V1.5 firmware is about to hit the streets, and it apparently has a ton of new features. If you haven't checked the Tascam site lately, go there. There's a post from Jace, something like "good news", I forget.

    If (when) you get the bridge, depending on where everything is in your studio, here's something I'm going to do as soon as I'm far enough along - In my new mix desk, there will be 2 21" monitors sitting behind the mixers, and the desk will only be 24" tall to the underside of the desktop (4x8 ft) mixers/monitors on desktop, with a concave bridge shape, the center of which will be radiused at 48" (center being my head) for an arc of 60 degrees - the rest of the bridge will extend in a straight line tangent to that arc extending to the edge of the desk. Left, Center and Right nearfields of a 5.1 system will sit on the bridge, and by keeping the bridge just high enough to clear the 21" monitors, the nearfields will have their woofers at only 1-2" above my ears. The problem (finally, a possible reason for this story) is that the Tascam DM-24 stands pretty tall even without the meter bridge, and with it, even more so. I plan to punch extra holes in the two side brackets to allow the bridge to set down just to the rear of the attenuators, almost touching the surface of the mixer - this will give me (just barely) line of sight over the top of the meter bridge to see all the screens of the 21" monitors. Sorry about the long-winded story, just thought you might need to do that in your own setup. (If not, just don't read that last part - hehe) Anyway, best of luck with your DM-24 - I'm still trying to find a way to interface mine with Samplitude/DAW thru TDIF at 24/96, cheaper than over half the cost of the mixer. So far, only RME claims to be able to do it at all. LABTYD, right? Later... Steve
     
  5. hd99fatboy

    hd99fatboy Guest

    Dude, you might need to lay down after that last disertation there...

    hahaaah.
    no sounds cool but I'll be holding off on the meter bridge for a while.
    Bu t I will be layng the DM into my desk soon, cause it is so damn high, I can bearly hear my left speaker cause its on the other side of the mixer.

    I'm still in working / building mode too. but most of its there.
    started playing around witrh everything and got lazy about the astetics of the room.
    take a look.
    http://ankstudios.com/images/studio
    kinda messy in these shots, you notice thje shop vac and whatnot floating around the room we only use that for special clients
    got a new tune I finished a few days ago too, check it out and tell me what you think.
    http://ankstudios.com/audio/busters_broken_femur/
    its the "two of a kind" song.
    the timing is a little kooky cause I ain't done this sor t of thing ina while.
    don't know what your taste in music is but I think this is a nice tune.
    the rest is just goofing around feeling out the board and my new gear

    got any links to some of your stuff?
     
  6. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey Buster - no links, just got the domain I wanted about a week ago, along with a Nikon 885 camera and wide angle adapter - Then somebody let their alligators come swim in my pond, the two 'gator families ganged up on me, and my arm's gettin' tired of clubbin' 'gators - My mess makes your mess look like Felix (odd couple) meets Mr. Rogers - no pix yet, anybody can look at a landfill... I'm doin' everything totally by myself in the country, with everything that can get in the way doin' it at least twice - not really complaining, how boring would life be without challenges ('gators)?

    Probably the biggest holdup in my case is not wanting to make the same mistakes the second time - My first room was built in one side of a 36 x 48 barn, the room is 11.5 x 8.2 x 35.5 feet inside dimensions, I used 12" square egg separators on one center section (behind the drum kit at the time) stapled to wall with 1/2" carpet pad behind (rattle) Did this 10 years ago when I still thought egg cartons = soundproof - Been studying acoustics/digital audio/etc. ever since.

    Speaking of which, two things in the pix that I would watch - (1) is that stuff on the ceiling mattress pads? May look similar to the high price stuff, but very little effect on absorption. May tame splatter from drum overheads a little, not sure. (2) You really need to consider a bridge for your nearfields - whole reason for nearfields is to get the room as far out of the equation as possible. What that entails, is NOTHING directly between you and the speakers, and no surface the sound coming from the speakers can bounce off of BEFORE it gets to your ears, also no surface the sound can bounce off of and reach your ears in less than 10-12 milliseconds AFTER the direct sound gets to you.(if you can place a mirror on any surface and see the speakers in the mirror from the mix position, the total path distance (direct to surface, + surface to ear) needs to be at least 13-14 feet. If this is not the case, then that surface area needs to be treated with some type of absorption. You can spend bux at Auralex, or buy F. Alton Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics for $20 and roll yer own from Home Depot or the like -

    The result of NOT doing this is: No matter if your speakers are $100 a pair Radio Shack or $25k a pair Westlakes, they will not give you your money's worth if you're getting early reflections. These combine with the direct sound and usually NOT in phase, cause "comb filtering", which basically is like having a 300-band graphic equalizer in the system with 25 monkeys always playing with the sliders while you are trying to find out why things don't sound right, or else they do while you're mixing but don't anywhere else... Looks like an Event spkr from what I could see - try either a full bridge, or two spkr stands on the desk, tall enough to get a straight line from spkr to ear - find some 1/2" foam or Homosote to decouple the speaker from the stand, set the speakers forward enough so the edge of the spkr sits in front of the edge of the stand by about 1/2", and have one of your band buds move a cheap dressing mirror on walls, ceiling, anywhere it looks like reflections could get to you within 13 feet of the real thing. Yeah, it's a PITA, but it's the cheapest "new speakers" you can buy.

    Now you see why my posts are never short - there's so much $*^t in my head (be nice) that if somebody poked it with a pin at least half the northern hemisphere better like brown... Steve
     
  7. hd99fatboy

    hd99fatboy Guest

    Great advice dude, taking it all in.
    the foam on the ceiling is the good stuff, mostly for the over heads and cymbal splash, the room itself is fairly decent acousticly speaking.
    the other thing, with the speakers in the CR, your also right about, I'll be laying the console into the desk then raising the speakers ( event project studio 6 ) with some stands from radio shacl or whatever.
    I'll be putting some baffles in behind me too for reflections, but its not that bad right now.

    where in the west coast are you that you have Gators, or where you being fecisious (sp)
     
  8. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Facetious Fella, that's me - search for posts by my member #, you might find 2-3 out of maybe 110 that have no humor, even though there's (hopefully) some useful crap in between - No REAL 'gators here, although you couldn't tell it by the remnants of my bloody ass...

    Oh, on "laying the console into the desk" - You might want to watch the angle of the console surface relative to where your monitors (and ears) are ultimately going to be - use the mirror trick, and if you can see the speakers in a mirror placed ANYWHERE on the console, try shimming up the rear of the console to make the surface steeper. This can cause the reflections from the console surface (usually a major hassle) to miss your ears the first time around, hopefully getting lost in the diffusion behind you. Awright, 'nuff seriousness here, bring in the next joke... Steve
     

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