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Mic Pres?

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by lawtonmchiles@mac.com, Aug 19, 2003.

  1. Hey everybody, i had a question. When your talking about Mic pre's , what is that exactly. When I recorded, i took my mic and just plugged it into my Roland vs-1880, and used the on-board effects. Can someone explain to me the signal chain? Are micpres' like compressors and stuff tha you plug the mic into and then plug it into the studio? Thanks
    lawton
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Lawton,
    Microphones have a very low output level. They need a “pre amplifier” to boost their level to “line level” where other processing like equalization and compression can be performed. The mic inputs on your Roland are mic pre amps.. Typically, the mic pres built into these all in one recorders are real ok but not as good as a quality outboard mic pre like a Neve, API or others. The difference a quality mic pre makes can be astounding… Kurt

    [ August 19, 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Kurt Foster ]
     
  3. Rod Gervais

    Rod Gervais Active Member

    Kurt,

    A question my friend,

    when you use a seperate mic pre - do you have to re-wire the board to bypass the onboard mic-pre's?

    Also - are the 1/4" line inputs run through the onboard pre's -

    Rod

    [ August 19, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Rod Gervais ]
     
  4. tmix

    tmix Guest

    Most often if your board has insert points you can input the preamp out there and bypass the mic pre.
     
  5. Rod Gervais

    Rod Gervais Active Member

    Tom,

    The only problem i see with that approach is that i then lose my ability to do inserts at that point. :d:

    Oopps...... nevermind - i checked online and see ALL KINDS of pre's with inserts......

    Kewl........ :s:

    Rod

    [ August 19, 2003, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Rod Gervais ]
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Rod,
    You have never said what kind of board you use.. I myself go directly out of the outboard mic pres (I don't use anything else) into the recorder. If I want eq or compression, I insert it between the pre and the recorder by patching out of the pre to the processing gear and from there to the recorder.. I avoid at all costs ever passing any signal that is being recorded through my console, which I use only to monitor DAW outputs and mix phone feeds when I am tracking.. Kurt
     
  7. Rod Gervais

    Rod Gervais Active Member

    Kurt,

    awww....... i did say once - early on - what kind of board i used........ i think you were one of the guys who made fun of it..... (LMAO)

    i can't say it here because the sensors might get mad....... but it's a b********r....... I' sure you get the picture....... :D :D :D

    but your way of doing it sounds even better..... don't know why i didn't think of that except for i am a real newbie at this.......

    Thanks buddy....... :c:

    Rod
     
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Rod,
    I'm useing a Mackie SR24 (rowlffff) so don't feel like the lone ranger.. it's really no better... probably pretty much the same circut designs, Mackies might be a bit sturdier.. same sh*tty power supplies probably..

    Like I said, nothing that ever gets recorded goes through the Mackie.. it is only to monitor on and mix phones. At mix I monitor the out of a stand alone CDr burner.. that is hooked up to the DAW via s/pdif outs.. I have a vintage Nakamichi 410 all discreet pre amp that feeds dual Haffler P3000s .. it's ok.. not a Hot House or Bryston set up but for a home rig, it's pretty good... Kurt :tu:
     
  9. Rod Gervais

    Rod Gervais Active Member

    Buddy,

    I'll get there - I origanlly came here for the single purpose of learning more about the recording side of music........ after 40 years of playing i figured it was about time to expand....

    So i will keep reading - asking - watching and learning....... and one of these days I'll get you to review that song....... except then it will be fixed up........ :D :D :D

    Thanks for the info......

    Rod
     
  10. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Rod, as kurtenheimer said, go direct young man,go direct....AND as an owner of said piece of ....uhh....gear....you are a very good candidate for mic pres to go direct with.This makes for the shortest path and avoids all the knobs associated with that path.you of course continue to use yer....uhh...mixer to monitor your signal and to feed control room and phone or studio feeds to whatever you wish to monitor on.This also avoids all the knobs associated with that path.

    Just for the record(hummm.)I had a friend who also owned one of those....uhh...mixing devices...much like yours.At mixdown he was so dissappointed in the sound through the channel strips that he used only the monitor bus to mix from.Unless he had to add an outboard of some kind,Then he was very carefull to not use ANY EQ of ANY kind associated with his....uhhh,,,thing...(b...............r)....
     
  11. So , when I get the 001, what kind of mic pre's should i go for? like, what's the chain? is it 001, to mic-pre, to joe meek , ect, to the mixer? thanks, recorded on roalnd for a while, but i'm still a beginner...as is most of us i guess, always learning

    "Throw your hatred down"-Neil Young

    "See the man with the Stage Fright, standing up there..."The Band
     
  12. sdevino

    sdevino Active Member

    The 001 has 2 mic pres built in. If you want to go external then the chain is Mic Pre-> 001 -> Computer.

    As far as which one? Its kind of like asking if I have no crayons, which color should I buy first.

    What is your budget?
    What do you think you will record mostly?
    what microphones do you have or are you planning to get?

    Steve
     
  13. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    I usually start with RED. Focusrite, DW Fearn True Systems, or Langevin
     
  14. recording mostly, accoustic guitar/vocals, overdub bass/electric guitars/synth and drum machines.

    thanks

    lawton
     
  15. Richard Monroe

    Richard Monroe Active Member

    You can mostly bypass the pres on a VS studio by setting the channel input gain as low as possible (line input). Roland's inputs are variable impedence, and the pres characteristicly suck, the 2480 somewhat less than the others. I go from outboard pre line outs to the channel ins on a VS1824CD, with the input levels set at the minimum (line) level. I'm afraid that doesn't quite take the Roland's pres out of the signal chain, but at least they won't be adding gain, with associated distortion.
    Generally, outboard FX or compression will be patched along side the pre as an insert, or if the pre doesn't have inserts (eg., my Avalon), the FX or compressor goes in line. The only way you can really bypass the Roland's pres is to go in digital, by whatever I/O's you're given (S/PDIF, AES/EBU, optical, etc.) To make this worthwhile, you have to have a pre or A-D converter that is better than the one in the Roland. I have found my Roland's A-D converter to be pretty good, even if the pres suck, and I've gotten my best sound going in analog.
    I don't use any of the 1824's onboard effects. I can do better, by and large, even with fairly cheap outboard FX by TC Electronics or Lexicon. I gotta say, though, the sound of a VS1824 improves vastly when you feed it with an Avalon, Pendulum, John Hardy, Great River, or hell, even a Joemeek or a DBX386, both of which I use. I'm recording a fairly serious project album with a VS studio and a small boatload of outboard gear. When it's over, I'll write Roland and explain how I bypassed everything their box does, except be a 24 bit 96khz recorder with a built in mixer! Yes it works.-Richie
     
  16. by

    by Guest

    if you buy a digi001, then your chain might be:

    mic -> micpre -> digi001 -> computer

    if you have a jowmeek compressor, then you might try sticking it here:

    mic -> micpre -> compressor -> digi001 -> computer

    to monitor all this, take the main outputs of the digi001 and go into a channel on your mixer. That
    s what i do, as I don't use my mixer for much else other then monitoring.

    just suggestions...

    as for what micpres to buy, FMR RNP is a great bang for the buck (it's only ~$450!) it's great for direct bass, and makes a sm57 sound almost great. the pre sound is fairly clear/flat/uncharacteristical - in a good way of course. just a tiny bit noisier then others...
     
  17. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE help... ALSO. CAN I USE my Mic pre on ALL my mics' and guitars...bass.. or would that be BAD...THANKS

    L
     

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