Microtech Gefell M200 and M270 against M294/5/6

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by Stradivariusz, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. Stradivariusz

    Stradivariusz Active Member

    Everybody here seems to be impressed by the Gefell's mics. Especially M296.
    But does anybody know how do they compare to M270?
    I'm interested to know the same about M200 and M294/5

    I'm courious, what is your experience.

  2. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Having only used the M296 and M200, I can only give you a limited comparison. However, from what I heard, the M200 is a tad brighter than the Schoeps CMC 6 / Mk 4. It also runs a tad leaner in the bass region. Don't get me wrong - it's a great mic - for the money though, I think the Schoeps are a better bet. In regards to the 296 - most everybody here know that I REALLY dig this mic. IMO, it takes the best of the Schoeps mixed with the best of the DPA and leaves all the other stuff out.

    I don't think you can go wrong with the 296.

    You might also want to check out the M300. If you want a good, clean, warm pencil but don't need the interchangable caps that the M200 gives you, this will fit the bill quite nicely. Again, it's a tad warmer than both the Schoeps or the M200 and it's less expensive.

    If I were to use an M200, I would think that I would use it more in the diffuse field. This should help to "equalize" the temperment on this mic.

  3. Stradivariusz

    Stradivariusz Active Member

    Thanks for your reply and explenation

    Actually I'm looking for a good couple of matched pair mics for recording on location. I'm already quite a bit busy with collecting some information about mics and it looks like Gefell is a good way to go - cheaper than Schoeps, DPA or Sennheisers and seem to be "as good as them".

    I can get now just a pair of mics, so I'm hesitating between omni and cardio.

    I'm recording concerts very often and usually in difficult venues - or not much or too much reverb, places which are also small, like a school classes.

    I want to be really serious about it - have some groups who want to make a CD with me since they have heard my recent recordings, but I don't have any experiance with omnis and I'm not sure if the cardio will not be easier to work with for me. I made few very nice recordings with Rode NT5, but these are getting to weak for my more and more proffesional needs. I'm in the same place concious of advantages which I might get from omni and the circle is closed...difficult to decide.

    I was thinking of M200 or M270 because they have switchable capsule (cardio and omni by the hand always when I need it). It will be cheaper to buy a pair of capsules that a pair of mics, but which one to get first?

    I'm very much interesting of going with omnis with their dis- and advantages, but maby it will be asking for trouble?

    I would love to buy M296 if I'm sure that this mic will let me make a good recordings in easy as in difficult circumstances. So many classical recording engineers loves omnis very much...there should be a reason for it, no?


  4. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    Hello there and welcome aboard :)

    I notice that in your post you mention that the established standards are more expensive than the Microtech Gefells.

    Where are you based? From Germany, you can get a Schoeps capsule and body for little more than a 294/5/6. Unfortunately the DPAs and Sennheisers are more expensive everywhere.

    The last time I checked, the MGs were €861 each, with Schoeps capsule and body starting at around €900, so, depending on your circumstances, the Schoeps route might still be a viable option if you're interested.

    Good luck with whatever you decide!

  5. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I would tend to agree with John on this one. If given a palatte full of microphones and I had to choose the most versatile one, I would choose the Schoeps without a doubt.

    Don't get me wrong I *LOVE* the M296, but the collette system is impossible to beat in value and overall sound.
  6. Stradivariusz

    Stradivariusz Active Member

    I understand your point of view, but I simply have to choose one of them wisely... I will rethink this idea. Schoeps are a little bit over my budget, but not by much, so one matched pair should be possible.
    Matched pair of SMS2000 (M20 or M70) is 500€ cheaper, what is a strong point, but if the quality difference between them is quite clear as you suggest maby I should not hesitate...and go for Schoeps.
    Only which one...?

    Marcin :?
  7. sdelsolray

    sdelsolray Active Member

    I wouldn't infer that the quality of the Schoeps Collette series beats the MG 200 series or the fixed MG 294/295/296 mics. The sound of the two brands are different. From a quality standpoint, they are both top notch. I have a pair of CMC6/MK4 as well as a pair of MG 294s. They are each stunning mics in their own way, but again they are rather different, mostly due to the gold vs. nickel capsule designs, as well as electronics.
  8. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Agreed -

    Better? No.

    More versatile (interchangable caps, soundwise)? yep.
  9. Stradivariusz

    Stradivariusz Active Member

    Thanks to all for your ideas

    Well, that's less confusing, I will keep in mind, that Schoeps and Gefells are my possible choices.

    Second question: I discribe few lines higher my confusion about the type choice. Can you help me from your experiance with recording with one couple of mics, is it possible to work with omnis in difficult situations? From that what I know already, omnis are a better choice for classical, but sometimes difficult to place them correct. For the safety reasons, should I start with cardios and safe money for latter omnis, or I overact with my fear for omnis?

    I would preffer omnis, even I've never worked with them, but I know recordings done with a couple of omnis.


  10. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    My personal preference would be to lean towards the omnis.

    True, with Cardioids, you are taking the safer route and they will work better in "bad" spaces, but in good spaces, you'll miss what a good pair of omnis can offer. Also, in bad spaces, getting a little closer to the source will help. It will minimize the reverb effect, but that's the idea in an awful space.

    Beware though, setting up a good AB pair can be VERY difficult. Too close and you have a beautiful mono recording. Too far and you have a recording that's two city blocks wide.

    Just my thoughts.

  11. Stradivariusz

    Stradivariusz Active Member

    Thanks Cucco
    Could you give me some other tips or sources (if I'm not asking too much) to read about it how to prevent this kind of problems? Distance, spacing?
  12. ghellquist

    ghellquist Member

    Beeing a rather new convert to the omni camp I can only say that I second that route. I tend to get much better sound with omnis than with cardoids. It takes a bit of work to place the omnis just right, but the result is definitely worth it in my ears. You will of course hear a bit more of the room, but a really bad room will not sound better with cardoids.

    As for the ambience there is a rule of thumb that if you put the omnis at a distance of 1, you will get about the same ambience with a pair of cardoids at a distance of 1.7.

    (happy amateur recorder)
  13. DavidSpearritt

    DavidSpearritt Well-Known Member

    I agree, always omnis before cardioids. There's only two types of mics, pressure (omnis) and pressure difference (fig8's), all the rest are hybrid combinations of these two.

    A cardioid has slots cut behind the capsule to allow some time aligned pressure behind the capsule to create the directivity pattern. As a result all sorts of off axis problems can arise, so cardioids rarely sound good off axis, unfortunately, this is where most of the sound incidence hits the capsule in techniques that use them.

    You will always get better tonality from omnis or fig8's, on or off axis.
  14. Stradivariusz

    Stradivariusz Active Member

    Let it be than. I will go for the omnis.
    Thank you for your advice :cool:
  15. John Stafford

    John Stafford Well-Known Member

    Hi David
    I must admit that I always find it a little odd, using ORTF on a choir, that you actually point the slits at most of the singers.

  16. _basso_

    _basso_ Active Member


    In the near future i will put out some pipeorgan recordings
    i have done in finland...with Markus Wargh. mic Gefell 296S...

    And i will take the chance and send many many thank's to GHellquist
    who have borrow his Gefell 296 s to meee :lol: :cool:
    I don't know how to repay you..

    Markus and will make another recording in lulea cathedral next saturday...with the same microphones.

    You are not alone who love this microphones now :p
    They are FANTASTIC on pipeorgan....
  17. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Hey Basso!

    I'm glad you like them. I would think they are THE perfect mic for pipe organ.

    They have a bottom end that just has no limits, don't they?


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