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mics on a budget

Discussion in 'Microphones' started by jeronimo, May 24, 2001.

  1. jeronimo

    jeronimo Guest

    What you guys think about this setup:
    2 Marshall MXL 603 (overheads)
    1 Oktawa MK 012 (bottom snare)
    1 RE 20 (kick)
    1 SM57 (top snare)
    3 Senn 604 (toms)
    1 Marshall MXL 2001 (vox)
    With this setup I should spend around... 1200 and I still have a spare MXL 2001... comments? Ideas?
  2. Gregg

    Gregg Guest

    Depends on the pre amps. They will make or break any effort with that selection of mics.

    With that said, I would recommend trying a single 2001 as an overhead, 57 on the +snare port+ and the RE20 on the kick. That'll leave several spare mics and most likely a better drum sound.

    The room will make a huge impact but you didn't mention that.

    And of course, YMMV


    TB :cool:
  3. it seems a good setup to, to start.
    I would get the Okatava MC012 FMSP from TheSoundRoom. They seems a very nice mics to me, and I use'em a lot, especially with the omni capsule.
    I personally don't like the E603 (I have 3 of'em), but just becasue I was fortunate enought o get a couple white MD421 for less than the price of 1 E604.

    good luck
  4. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Not a bad kit. Might want to look at the MXL V-67G rather than the 2001 as your large diaphragm condensor, folks seem to be more impressed with it. I also don't know about putting such a forest of mics up around a kit, I tend to use four mics at most. I think overheads and room mics get enough of the toms, generally, to dispense with seperate mics. If you want to go that way, you might want to try to sneek in an MD-421, which you can swap with the RE-20 or you can use one on kick and one on the bass amp so you have good seperation and clarity on each. It's a damned versatile mic, as is the RE-20. With a good pre, either is going to shock you on vocal tracks.

  5. jeronimo

    jeronimo Guest

    Thanx for the comments guys!! I really appreciate. Let me tell ya, I really love the 421s!!!! Those are the mics for toms, but unfortunatelly I cannot afford spending $300 bucks on each. If you guys can give some places where I can find them used for good prices :)? I know the room will make a huge difference so as the pre-amps. I don't know yet how my room is gonna be but I'm already getting my gear for my future home studio :) :)!!
    I'm using a Mackie 1604 Pro... what you guys think? By the way, I noticed the you guys don't like to mic the whole kit... what kind of music you record most?! I'm into heavy music, and I'm a drummer too :) so maybe I'm a bit... to worried about the drum sounds...
  6. coldsnow

    coldsnow Active Member

    May 14, 2001
    Mogadore, OH
    If you like your 421 try a 441 on snare. You may never use a 57 again.
  7. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Feb 10, 2001
    Hey guys, neat discussion...but not exactly right for the neighborhood...so I moved it over to Harvey's world. Seems like a slightly better place to have this discussion.

  8. hargerst

    hargerst Active Member

    Jan 28, 2001
    Thanks a bunch Fletcher, but you're right - this is my turf; bottom-feeder country. For kick, you might also look at the ATM25 and I agree on the V67G instead of the 2001. I really like to Audix omnis for overheads but the 603Ss should work fine too. Assuming a good room, some decent drums, and a good player, you should be able to get a nice professional sound from that system.
  9. Juergen

    Juergen Guest

    Interesting thread indeed, since I was thinking about getting the 604s, but not knowing ANYTHING about them. I live in Paraguay (South America), and I can't get most mics, much less test them and see what I like best. I had thought about getting a kit of three 604s, but I don't know how well they sound. Isn't $350 a bit low for something a little better sounding than just decent, if at all? I don't mean to sound self righteous or snobby or anything...in case I do...

    Is there a difference between the white and the black 421s?

    How do the KM184s work as overheads for rock? I work digitally (PTLE) and my pres are Mackies (1604 VLZ), and very soon the Digimax...there's a plan for better pres, maybe a pair of api or something, but no money right now...

    I need to close mic the drums for certain styles, so that it sounds less rocking, a bit mellower and in the direction of sounding similar to sequenced drums (WHAT!), cuz that's what a lot of poeple here are used to (in Paraguay). Rooms make the drums sound pretty sweet in my opinion, but too spacious for most folks (mariachi/romantic type cheese).

    I was thinking for close mic'ed kit:
    Kick RE20/421
    Sn 57
    Toms 604s?
    OH KM184 (SM81 until the Nmanns get here)
    HiHat uh, I am not sure...how do large diaphragm cond. sound?

    Generally, I don't like to mic the HH.

  10. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    The 1604 isn't horrible, use the direct outs to tape and use the eq sparingly and it's quite useable. The pre's are the best part of the board.

    As for the question of the number of mics and heaviness, well, the multi-micing trend in my mind is tied to eighties spandex-clad hair metal. Most of the cool Zeppelin, Sabbath, et al., drums where only a few mics. Heavy is about the player, the kit, and the room, and gating the hihat won't do much to change that. Multi-micing can lead to comb filtering, which has a high potential to emasculate heavy.

  11. jeronimo

    jeronimo Guest

    I recorded a couple of fusion/rock drummers last week and all of them had the kits close mic'ed and the results made me believe that's the way to go... don't get me wrong, I'm a newbie, so I never tried a couple of mics on the drum kit... I'm just saying what I experienced! :) And any other comments on the 604s?
  12. Rog

    Rog Guest

    I used to think that more mics = better sound. Unfortunately, that's rubbish. Phase problems lead to a weaker sound and if you have that close-mic'd approach 'everything' sounds big - there's no sense of scale and, in my experience, whilst the kit might sound fine on it's own, as soon as you bring the other instruments in, the kit disappears.

    Maybe you could try experimenting with a fairly live room and mic placement for a big sound. The 3 mic technique Fletcher uses can work wonders - maybe with an additional matched mic catching the bottom of the snare?
  13. Juergen

    Juergen Guest

    How do the Sennheiser 604s sound on toms? If one were to get a kit like this one, has anyone heard or experienced what it sounds like, the different brands, etc?

    Is there a diff between the white and the black 421?

  14. jeronimo

    jeronimo Guest

    I'll try the 3 mic technique soon!! I'm glad you guys are encouraging me on this :)! Comments about the 604s? :)
  15. hathabr

    hathabr Guest

    Originally posted by Juergen:
    How do the Sennheiser 604s sound on toms? If one were to get a kit like this one, has anyone heard or experienced what it sounds like

    I bought one to try it out- without eq, it pretty much sounds how the drum itself sounds (like a dynamic mic). This could be exactly what your looking for, but if you are looking for a mic to enhance the drum sound, I can't say. I need to spend some more time with it & an eq before I give it a solid two thumbs up.

    See ya.
  16. jeronimo

    jeronimo Guest

    Well... I don't have a lot of money to spend on mics, so what I want at least, is a good representation of what is going on with my kit :)! Most home studios cannot make your drum sounds larger than life (I believe...). So, we have one good input for the 604s... anyone else?
  17. hargerst

    hargerst Active Member

    Jan 28, 2001
    We use the Sennheiser E504s here (which are an earlier version of the 604) and they work fine for toms.
  18. Juergen

    Juergen Guest

    Thanks for the responses!

  19. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Larger than life isn't that unobtainable. If you don't need it to be an authentic sound, a Sansamp and a Distressor on a bus can do wonders. That and the [url="(dead link removed) mic drum technique[/url] can be quite impressive for a pretty inexpensive outlay in equipment. You just got to have the ears to get it together early instead of killing it in the mix.

  20. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Feb 17, 2001
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Home Page:
    Originally posted by Rog:
    I used to think that more mics = better sound. Unfortunately, that's rubbish. Phase problems lead to a weaker sound and if you have that close-mic'd approach 'everything' sounds big - there's no sense of scale and, in my experience,as soon as you bring the other instruments in, the kit disappears.

    Tell that to Jack Joseph Puig and Steve Albini.

    The 3 mic technique...can work wonders

    So, you find that the three mic technique always works really well for an extremely layered dense rock mix? Is that a risk you want to take? Lets just say for the moment that the drummer is incredible, and he has a top of the line kit tuned to perfection and you are recording him in a very well designed tracking room. The Kit sounds pretty damn good at that particular moment and your preconcieved notion about "purist" 3 mic drum recording leads you to record it in that particular way (rather than listening, you already know this method is perfection). So mix time comes, either you are doing the mix or you have to hand in your homework to another mixer somewhere else. What does he do when he wants the toms louder (don't say automation, thats not purist first of all and secondly there is going to be a lot more going on with cybmals and possibly snare at that particular moment), or the snare snappier with more reverb on the snare than the cymbals, I'm sure the rest of you could come up with more examples.

    Look, what I am saying is that it is not going to hurt to close mic everything up and then only use what you need at any particular moment. There have been countless albums where there are multiple mics going at the same time. Maybe the phase has been lessened by using auto, maybe by using gates, maybe by using Samples/triggers, maybe the phase is sometimes benefitial and actually works within the context of the mix. Either way every method in the book has been used and the more options you have open to you in the end, the better the production will be.

    Nathan Eldred
    Atlas Pro Audio, Inc.

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