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MIDI clock question

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Groff, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    I would like to record sounds from a hardware synth but it has to be triggered from the DAW sequencer.

    Do I have to turn off the MIDI clock inside the hardware synth to get more accurate timing?
     
  2. Kapt.Krunch

    Kapt.Krunch Well-Known Member

    What synth? What sequencer?

    You'd generally turn the synth to "external", set it to the proper MIDI channel to receive from the same channel as the track you want from the sequencer, and set the sequencer timing to "internal", or possibly something like "audio", if you already have audio. You MAY also check to see that your sequencer MIDI timing resolution is set higher. Maybe it doesn't like, say, 120 PPQ, and would do better at 480 or 960, etc? Maybe you have that set too high, and it's confusing the synth? I dunno, we don't know what you have. This is where the manuals for both products come in handy, especially the MIDI sections, and the MIDI Implementation Charts.

    Do you have anything else between just the computer and the synth, as far as MIDI? Is it just MIDI Out of the computer to MIDI In of the synth?

    Give us some details, please?

    Kapt.Krunch
     
  3. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    Oh, I had to be more specific, sorry.

    I use Rosetta 200, Nuendo3, API pres.

    I'm working on a song / arrangement for a band and I already have programmed drums in Nuendo3 and some scratch tracks of bas, guitars and a vocal. They are not studio level musicians (but they have great expectation on final product... sounds familiar?) so it will be much easier to stick to MIDI as much as possible.

    I have to add some tracks from two different synths (I don't know exactly which models, they are from client and he will come up next week, I guess ... a Triton and some Yamaha... nothing obsolete) but it will need a lot of correction and quantizing. I'm usually using soft synths but he insists on his hardware.

    Basically, I will record MIDI in N3, make all corrections and trigger hardware synths (one at the time) and record analog outs to audio tracks in N3. It should be peace of cake. It is just MIDI Out of the computer to MIDI In of the synth and analog out from synth to the analog in of Rosetta?
    I do know how to make all connections and routing, it's not a problem.

    A few years back, I had a bit different situation. I recorded audio files from hardware synth (Yamaha PRS... xyz... something) using MIDI file. First pass was triggered from the DAW and the second was played directly from hardware synth MIDI engine. Tempos were matched correctly. After lining up audio files, one (from synth midi engine) was shorter by almost two bars (on a 3 min song). The pitch was correct. I didn't know how to explain this, except that those MIDI clocks have different time.

    I'm still wondering are the incoming MIDI messages time affected by MIDI clock inside the synth.
     
  4. Kapt.Krunch

    Kapt.Krunch Well-Known Member

    The synth will respond to the timing of the MIDI clock the computer is sending. The synth's clock doesn't matter with that, if it's sent to respond to external clock. The timing of the synth only matters if it has an onboard sequencer that you start from the keyboard, and are trying to send MIDI data to the computer, and want to have the keyboard be master, with the computer slaved...which requires the synth to be able to send start, stop, and possibly SPP, data to control another device.

    When playing a keyboard's audio outs into a computer A/D in, the keyboard's clock doesn't matter...only the computer's does. It's the same as playing an instrument or running a mic in.

    If your short recording was recorded with the wrong settings in the computer sequencer, that may account for the duration problem.

    If you have only MIDI data in any existing tracks, then Internal MIDI controlling the synth should probably let you record the synth outputs into the computer as audio for the intial audio track. But, once audio is recorded into the sequence, the audio should be the timing reference, with the DAW's MIDI tracks following that, and the keyboard following the timing synced from the computer, which should keep them in sync. It's easier for MIDI to foillow audio, than it is for audio to follow MIDI timing. In fact, audio usually DOESN'T follow MIDI well, at all.

    I suspect something like that may have happened, but I'm not sure. Since you said previously recorded audio in as the first pass from the computer controlling the keyboard, and then manually played the second part in, if you didn't change the timing reference between the two recordings......that's what makes me think that. It took me a while to figure that out, and remember to do it.

    Good luck,

    Kapt.Krunch
     
  5. Groff

    Groff Active Member

    That's what I'm looking for.

    MIDI sux.

    You rules.

    Thank you
     

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