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audio Mix opinions, Metal

Discussion in 'Fix This MIX!' started by ThomasT, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. ThomasT

    ThomasT Active Member

    Hi,

    I would like to hear what you like and dislike on the following mix.



    I don't say anything at the moment to hear an uninfluenced opinion.

    Thanks, Thomas
     
  2. DM60

    DM60 Active Member

    Hey Thomas, I've been to Erfurt, back in 89/90. They made me check into the police station when I arrived and check out when I left. Not a great time. My wife still has family there.

    FYI- Your url link doesn't work.
     
  3. ThomasT

    ThomasT Active Member

    Hi,
    they did it still in 1990? After the fall of the wall?

    The link should work now.
     
  4. DM60

    DM60 Active Member

    This was before the fall. Not for sure how long before.

    The quick snippet you provided the mix on my system (consumer grade for listening) sounded fine to me. But it was rather quick and not sure if anyone can really provide a detail feedback with such a short duration.
     
  5. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    I'd like to hear an MP3 of this, in as high a resolution as possible, uploaded and playable through the media player we have here. It sounds like SC is up to its old tricks again, I can hear lossy artifacts happening, especially in the top end...

    On the bottom right hand side of the post window, you will see a button that says "Upload A File"

    This will allow you to upload an MP3 of your mix directly from your computer's hard drive; bypassing soundcloud and its little sonic gremlins.

    Soundcloud has a history of adding artifacts (unintentionally) during the upload and conversion process, when you up post your audio file through their service. I can't be positive about it, but I think it's due to their conversion process; they are probably using the least expensive system they can in order to offer what they do, and when it's converting your MP3 ( or .wav, aiff, etc.) it's adding these artifacts that are audible - at least audible to those who have "trained" ears and are accustomed to critical listening.

    FWIW

    d.
     
    kmetal likes this.
  6. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    The Hihat sounds a bit thin to me but this could be the choice of instrument or mic/placement.
    For the small part I hear it sounds good.. ;)
     
  7. ThomasT

    ThomasT Active Member

    I'll try it again directly ...

     

    Attached Files:

  8. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    This is a great new exemple of soundcloud limitations and frequency smearing .. I'm glad you uploaded here.. the difference is stunning.
    The Hihat sounds a lot better.. ;)

    Thomas, did you have any issue you feel you'd like to discuss about your mix ? or you do you just want to confirm that everything is ok ?
     
  9. ThomasT

    ThomasT Active Member

    Bass. The band didn't like the bass. And for my taste bassdrum could have more click. But the band like it, I think.
     
  10. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    It's very hard to discuss tastes. But what I hear in your small sample is 2 different and natural bass sound, the low notes and high notes.
    The low notes shadow the guitar part often and when it does that the bass is less present.
    The high notes gets more attention in the mix but the EQ could be different depending on what you like (or they like)

    Your mix is nearly completed, you and your customer should decide if further modifications are needed (time and money wise)
    If you and they are willing. I'd suggest this :
    Seperate the low and the high notes of the bass and work them as 2 seperate instruments. (either object mixing or seperate tracks)
    The lows could have more presense and the highs could have its presence switch from mids to mid-Highs (if any exist on the track)
    Also revisit your compression to avoid tamming the transient that much. Sometime a slower attack will get you a punchier bass.

    It's hard to comment a mix like that, without hearing the individual tracks and figure what you were dealing with at the beginning and what you have already done.
    I could be way out with my comment if the sound you end up is the result of fixing a bunch of problems that will re-appear if played with...

    The worst that happens sometime is when the customer wants his instrument to sound like another one...
    We can't reveal what isn't there in the track. A Fender jazz bass doesn't sound like a Gibson... ;)

    If you change some things in your mix, please post a revised version
     
  11. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    BTW, my suggestions aimed for subtle changes nothing drastic. I think your mix already works, it's no time to screw it up ;)
     
  12. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Well, it's certainly much better now that you've directly uploaded the audio file. While I've recorded more than a few metal bands over the years, I wouldn't consider it to be a comfortable genre for me to mix in... my style, what I do best, is with lighter stuff, but I am able to hear a metal mi and pick out things that seem to loud, or shy.

    This mix excerpt sounds pretty good to me through my studio monitors; the kick is standing out and has that "click" you mentioned, it' certainly definable, and the guitars work well. Part of the problem with the bass, and I've heard this quite a bit with harder rock and metal, is that 90% of the time, the bass is doing exactly what the guitars are doing - melodically and rhythmically, except its just doing it an octave down. When this happens, it becomes tough to distinguish what the bass guitar is doing, because all of the other instruments (guitars) are doing the same thing, and the bass can get lost in these fundamental frequency ranges; so beyond EQ, the best way to define it is for it to have an actual bass part, with counter melody/counter rhythm, as opposed to playing the exact same notes, in the exact same rhythmic pattern as what the guitars are playing.... doing so can go a long way in helping to set the bass apart from the other instruments in the mix.

    I'm not tying to tell you what to play, just making suggestions based on what I heard.

    That being said, you have to consider the source (me), and take into account that I'm not a metal-mixing expert. I'd continue to point you in the direction of other engineers here on RO, ( like Marco ( @pcrecord ) or Kyle (@kmetal )who are more experienced with tracking and mixing metal than I am.

    IMHO of course

    -d.
     
  13. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Other than the bass being a db or two too loud it sounds killer. You guys always do metal better on that side of the pond!!!!

    The clip cuts out before the vocals wich make or break most metal records, along with the drummer. So as long as the vocals and bass (wich may benefit from some harmonic disortion to keep the prominent clank without volume increase) don't cover up the snare any more than they do now (which is ok now) the mix should be just fine.

    Reminds me of the band Testament.
     
  14. ThomasT

    ThomasT Active Member

    Thanks.
    Since this record will be released from a label and the songs are protected by GEMA and I didn't have the permission from the band, I wanted to post the song so anonymously as possible. So I cutted the (german) vocals and uploaded only a representative short part to discuss the sound.

    To Testament: Yesterday evening I listend trough Youtube to find some comparable songs. So I also listened to Testament. Testament has a scooped metallic bass sound with lots of high mids.
    During recording I though the band would like such a bass sound. To be honest, as a bassist I like such sound, too. But now they want more tone, especially in the higher notes. The band really prefers the pure DI signal ...
    If I had known this before (mixing) I would have recorded the bass at least with other amp settings and not with a 6x10" cabinet. I have no problems with other bass sounds. I've done this a lot. Even for much softer bands.
     
    kmetal and pcrecord like this.
  15. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    If retracking is out of the question. you could try my spliting technic and use different EQ or even a Multiband compressor to push some weight on those notes..
     
  16. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    Or you could try reamping it...
     
  17. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Fwiw, especially with metal, I always try to, d.i the guitars, including bass guitar, for 'emergency'. that way if someone changes their mind, the performance cane stay in tact, and you re amp, or amp simulate.

    Always keep these tracks grouped together, so any of your edits apply to your emergency tracks. The DI track is also a great way to indentify transients on tracks like heavily distorted electric guitar, which have so many peaks they appear flat.

    The bass tone is nice and clear, and sits w the track, my comment was a slight volume thing. No deal breakers. Excellent work!
     
    pcrecord likes this.
  18. ThomasT

    ThomasT Active Member

    Hi,

    here are two new versions. Would like to hear what you think.



     

    Attached Files:

  19. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Mix a. Mix be is a bit thinner and broken up in the treble range, sounds like it was mixed on tired ears. If the bass doesn't come down in level a db or two when the vocals come in it would probably need to. Other than that man it really sounds like a record to me, quite close to being done.
     
    pcrecord likes this.
  20. ThomasT

    ThomasT Active Member

    The only real difference between two mixes is the bass. The first version is the current version. The second version is some playing with the bass sound, just to figure something out.
     
    kmetal likes this.

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