Mixdown part 3

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by Nutti, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Nutti

    Nutti Active Member

    Okey guys, a dude called me last week and wanted to record 20 song clips for himself as a troubadour. He wanted the sound to be as alike as his live performance for the audiance trough his pa system. So we did a live recording in about 2x45minutes.

    This is what we used for vocals:
    Shure sm58 + Beyercynamic tg-x58 with a little eq, compression, a little delay and alot of reverb
    Half acustic guitar:
    DI + Shure sm57 (panned hard right) + Audio-technica mb2k (panned hard left) with a little eq, a little delay and alot of reverb. I also added a mono to stereo plugin for the DI channel to get a wider sound on the guitar.

    This is a cover of "hallelujah", tell me what you think about this mix.

    Song by user314830501 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

    Thanks,
     
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Nice performance. He sounds like Dylan in a way. I would bell curve a few DB out on of the guitar at 160hz and see how the Vox sits then. Maybe just a matter of a HPF. Its hot from 140 to 180. I also hear a major peak at 200hz. I'd pin that spot and pull about 3db there for certain.

    I can here him moving from side to side which is creating a low freq hole shot. Its not bad but its causing problems.
     
  3. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    More like this:
    Nutti by audiokid on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

    I looped yours with my example.

    NOTE: this is just cleaning up those lows on the entire track, which needs even more than what I just did but it is an example of what I would do on the guitar track.

    Then you could quite possibly juice up the entire track without it getting woofy like this. Right now those peaks are taking up a fair amount of wasted energy too..
     
  4. Nutti

    Nutti Active Member

    now that was one of the best posts I've ever read! Sharp detail on what I should do to clear out problems and with an example for my ears too. I've had a hard time earlier to understand people that are giving me advice since they have not been as pinpointed as this reply. I'll work on the lows on guitar and post a new example here today.

    With him moving around is a problem yes. I told him that he needed to be as still as possible, but since he had lyrics he needed to see and the guitar in his lap (he was sitting) I wasn't able to get the notestand close enough so that he could remain in the same position. That resulted in him moving his head a few inches to the right now and then. Also his energy in playing the guitar added rythmical jumping up and down. I don't know if there is anything I can do about this now other than keeping it in mind 'till he comes next time?

    Mix #2 I cutted the guitar 2db around 200hz but added a little at 400hz
     
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I didn't go back to the past audio clip to compare but if memory serves me well enough, it sounds much clearer, less woof in those area's now ( kudo's). I don't notice those spots as much.

    Other members may chime in and recommend mics that work better for moving targets.

    Being said, I think freedom of movement is good for vibe. Vibe to me is everything. I think all Pro's would agree we'd rather hear truth over a sterilized performance.
    So, restricting someone from moving is why we choose better rooms and better micing techniques. And, why its paramount to know your piece and not be reading notes during recording.

    Look how I even new that. Even though I can't see him singing, I can hear he is distracted at times. I hear comb filtering too.
    But, if you had a better environment for this type of musician or session, you would also have a better outcome. Its a double edged sword, or a win win.

    If the artist(s) are aware of their sound, space around them, not distracted at all, they become aware of advanced performing technique real FAST! And they learn their parts before recording in a studio or performing live. But, they also need to be able to hear this in the headphones or in an acoustic space. Maybe you didn't hear this in the control room too? Moving the mic further away from the hole and back may have helped.
    Where did you place the mic and what mic did you use?

    The next focus here: Welcome to the details of monitoring and how extremely important "what you hear" becomes.

    Hope this helps!
     
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    To add: Obviously expensive mics but good tips just the same.
    Something like the DPA 4099-G is great for moving targets.

    This is a cool video on how it works, however, I think it sounds way to forward and hot. I would not have it so close to the hole on this either. But its another example of a good tool for this type of performance and what not to do IMHO.



    He should be here instead and even further back:

    4099gui.jpg

    Other examples:

    http://www.royerlabs.com/rectips_acousticguitar.html


    http://www.puremix.net/video/recording/guitars/tracking-acoustic-guitar.html
     
  7. Nutti

    Nutti Active Member

    thanks for the reply! Altough my ears are to novice to notice comb filtering I might know whats causing it. I used a sm57 about 10" from the guitar at the body side pointed directly to the hole, and a audiotechnica mb2k about 10" from the body/neck side pointed to the base of the neck. BUT, I also used a DI signal witch could cause the comb filtering? As mentioned, I also added a slight delay to the guitar by busing thease 3 signals togeather, could that have something to do with it?

    My recording room is not professionally built in any way, it's basicly a 4x6meter room with some pyramid foampanels on the walls and celing. Maybe I someday get real acustic treatment to it but not at this point. Here's a pic with the guy ready to go 65368_247501655375857_1665466725_n.jpg
     
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    You've done a fine job despite the issues. Its not ideal to mic the hole. Better results are away around the 12 fret as a rule and at a distance that gives you rooms to move without drastic changes. You can hear the proximity in and out. But you've been able to fix some of that up.

    Do some research on comb filtering. Visit Real Traps and Ethan Winer. He has wonderful information on this.

    Cheers!
     
  9. Nutti

    Nutti Active Member

    I got the mic placement idea from this guy: How To Record Acoustic Guitar - Mic Placement - YouTube

    The main idea was to let the sm57 add a bit of bass to the sound therefor it was pointed directly at the hole, but I'll know to aim for the fretboard next time.

    This subject is closed from now on, since deadline is tomorrow :) and I got the help I needed, thanks!
     

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