Mixing in a DAW for vinyl release questions...

Discussion in 'Tracking / Mixing / Editing' started by achase4u, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. achase4u

    achase4u Active Member

    So I have read some articles online, and one small thread on this forum on this topic.

    I will be completing a project that is for vinyl and digital release.

    It seems a good idea to make sure you don't have a ton of presence on tracks as well as bass. Especially sub. So what is the workflow hear? High pass everything appropriately and get a good mix this way, and don't pan kick or bass drums?

    Should I help out the mastering engineer and do some M/S eq'ing to remove any excess low frequencies from the sides?

    Should I also low pass things? How religiously do you guys follow this code? What else is there to be aware of?

    Thanks all.
     
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    It sounds like you have a good handle on the process already. I would be asking your M.E these specific question so both of you are working towards a common goal. Or, are you doing it all and simply sending a master to a vinyl house? I've heard there are a few new ways to make records now?

    I mix into a master and do all of what you are describing, including I mono the bottom end.
    Being a mixer, and knowing how to do as much as you can (without killing it) has clear advantages. That's the beauty of having a good mixing and mastering process.
    Not all Mastering Engineers do stems or can can go back in the mix like you can now but if you know someone that rivals your skills, I'd be asking a lot of questions like you are doing now , kudo's.
    Planing ahead, finding the right guy that knows more than you is an obvious asset. If and when you find out more on this subject, come back here and pass it on! :) . I would love to continue this discussion.

    Don Grossinger is doing vinyl, he is a member here .
    Look him up. I'm sure he can advise you better than most, plus he's a good guy too.
     
  3. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    I don't know if it would benefit you to mono everything below 150 or not... this might be a step in mastering, although I regularly do this myself on most everything I mix. I think the best thing to do - following Chris's suggestin - is to contact your ME nd ask them what they would like, in terms of HP, mono low end, levels, etc.
     
  4. achase4u

    achase4u Active Member

    Thanks very much, guys! Ok - so I think it sounds like I need to choose a mastering engineer first before I mix these tunes(we are still tracking)

    Now, when you say you mono the bottom end, are you simply making sure your low frequency instruments are in the middle? Or do you cut allot of lows from the sides?

    I definitely like working with folks who are better than me on projects - I always learn something valuable!

    Don's site and videos look great!

    I am sure going with someone like him would make the most sense - however - with budget in mind, someone could do digital mastering for less and I could simply have that sent to the vinyl pressing plant, where they would still do the cutting to lacquer, right? And if the digital ME masters with vinyl in mind, it should need minimal tweaks at the plant?

    I'd definitely like to hear what you guys mean by mono everything under 150.
     
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Elliptical Equalizers research "vinyl mono bass"Samplitude Pro x Suite has this feature..

    http://recording.org/index.php?threads/problems-with-phase-when-cutting-vinyl.14968/#post-113047

    Mastering engineer will do this for vinyl but my comments are alway based around being pro active as well. Its why I use the term, "mix into a master' throughout my discussions.
    I don't necessarily master my work, but I think like an ME. I think we all should btw. (prevents us all from adding too much salt).

    Hybrid summing shares the opportunities of recording, mixing and mastering process. Therefore, I choose to build a system that includes Mastering level gear too.
    Mono is a big thing for me. I apply ME techniques as I mix into the master section but seldom end up printing everything I do. Its more about being pro active.
    Some steps are better left for the last step of whomever is doing that final step.

    Just for added discussion,
    Even if I don't mono the bottom freq, I always check my bass in mono with the Elliptical Equalizer approach so its balanced well ahead of time, regardless. Stereo low freq are usually louder when you mono them. Its easy to miss or add too much bass in a mix, so I find this is a good trick.
    ME can't remove after the fact, unless of course you provide stems.

    There a tons of references on vinyl throughout this forum explaining it.

    http://recording.org/index.php?search/62295/&q=vinyl mono bass&o=relevance
     
  6. achase4u

    achase4u Active Member

    Got it- thanks! Hmm I must not be able to search well - I only found one thread on mixing for vinyl... Thanks for the links! These are great. Sounds like I've pretty much got the important info.
     
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  7. Don Grossinger

    Don Grossinger Distinguished past mastering moderator Active Member

    Hi folks,

    I've been cutting records and doing only mastering for 33 years. I have a website at http://www.dongrossinger.com .

    In answer to some of your questions:

    If you're going to cut vinyl, and really want to go crazy, make a different mix with low frequency centered below about 150 Hz. Otherwise, I can do that when cutting. There's no need to cut out bass in general. I can make a record that sounds very very close to a digital master. I've used regular digital masters for years as cutting masters.

    Please don't just send your masters to the plant to be cut. They are usually not into pushing levels as much as possible. I do a much better cut on equipment I've known for decades. That lets me optimize the cutting, not just get it done. There is a difference.

    Please let me (or another experienced ME) do the mastering. It's all cumulative. Better masters make better sounding records. Don't cut corners to get it done cheap. You'll regret it in the end. Send me a track, I'll send back a sample.

    BTW: I do have new videos up on a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK69xCijGQjbmypSY4p2erQ

    Feel free to follow up with questions.
    Thanks,
    Don
     
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  8. achase4u

    achase4u Active Member

    Don,

    So kind of you to respond. I have read your other threads on this forum and enjoy your contributions!

    Honestly, I don't have a innate desire to mix anything differently for vinyl - rather I am curious and pro-active about anything I might need to do in order to make a better cut to lacquer. I tend not to mix my styles with huge bass and sub anyway - so I feel like what I mix should be a "layup" so to speak(take that with a grain of salt - I love engineering, but I am only semi-professional)

    It is impressive that you can get so close to a digital sound.

    I enjoyed some youtube video's of yours last evening, as well as reading up on your site. Since our band is indie, we will be attempting a kickstarter campaign to fund the mastering and vinyl production.

    So as far as on my end, I wouldn't necessarily have to get my linear phase eq's out and start chopping low freq's in the sides and above 15khz on cymbal tracks etc?

    Very interesting. I have seen lots of articles on this topic of mixing for vinyl, and many authors seem to have a very dogmatic approach to this. In the end, the only instruction that matters to me is from the ME!
     
  9. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Right on, Don
     
  10. Don Grossinger

    Don Grossinger Distinguished past mastering moderator Active Member

    Don't chop frequencies. It shouldn't be necessary. Just Make It Sound Good. Smooth, rich, detailed, nice vocals (without spitting esses).
    Send me a track as a sample. I'll make it sound better.

    You will not have to make a special mix for vinyl.

    Thanks,
    Don
     
  11. pan60

    pan60 Active Member

    watching: ) .
     
  12. achase4u

    achase4u Active Member

    Fantastic. Thank you kindly for the information! I'll send a track your way soon, once I get a decent enough mix going. Thank you!
     
  13. dprimary

    dprimary Active Member

    It was touched upon by a few people, but knowing you are going to vinyl you should check the mix in mono often, and listening to what it does to the low frequencies when it mono. On vinyl the lows are for all practical purposes mono.
     
  14. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Not only on vinyl. ;)

    I've mixed many songs that went to CD, MP3, etc. where I mono'd everything below 100hz - 150 hz.

    Just sayin'...
     

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