Mixingdown drums w/ sample

Discussion in 'Tracking / Mixing / Editing' started by anonymous, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    If the drums have been recorded. And now it's time to mix them down. How do you use the kick mic as the trigger for the kick drum sample?
    Or do you have to record with a trigger on the kick drum?
    I want to be able to select (or dial in) the right sounding kick drum sample during mixdown. I don't want to have to do it all during tracking. Mainly because then later I can find the perfect drum kit sample for the song.
     
  2. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    [I edited my original post to both make it simpler and more to the point of the original question]

    Get an external box like the Alesis DM5 (or older '4') http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=59
    With this you can patch in your kick, snare & tom tracks into the trigger inputs, and viola fast trigger sounds from the DM5. You can go one step further, to use other sounds, and midi out of the DM5 into a sampler or your Triton for the Tritons sounds or custom samples with a sampler.
     
  3. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Well my name says "it's that guy again" not "its that guy"
    And the Mackie SDR 24/96 Hard drive recorder has SMPTE, analog I/O's, Digital I/O's, MIDI in/out's, USB jack for upgrades over the internet, serial jack, ADAT SYNC and more.
    Will that save me from...?
    Maybe you should go back and read some more of my prior post? :lol: If you can find any? Come on man, lets have a little fun. I mean no harm.
    I like your ideas, I am new to midi and such, I have never needed it until recently.
    Here's my point...if I record the drums live and go home to mix them. Do I have to record with a trigger? Or can I sample later once I get back home?
     
  4. Blor007

    Blor007 Guest

    You can use drumagog?

    Or is that not an option? :)
     
  5. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    I think that's for PC. Right? :? :oops:
     
  6. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

  7. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    I understood from one of my other (many) post of different guys explaining it to me. But I do now understand, what you are sayin RecorderMan. Sometimes I get this MIDI stuff, other times I'm like a monkey doing a math problem. Sorry, I'm such a newbie to the world of sampling. :roll:
     
  8. Jimi_London

    Jimi_London Guest

    Drumagog version 4 is now out and it's available for both PC and MAC and is offered in several formats. Here's a list of some features from the Drumagog site:

    -Automatically replaces drum tracks with a variety of samples
    -Compatible with WAV, AIF, SDII, and GIG samples and libraries
    -MIDI Input and Output Capability
    -Advanced Visual Triggering feature
    -Sophisticated sample management
    -Auto sample-rate conversion
    -Works with any VST, RTAS, or AU compatible application
    -Compatible with Pro Tools, Logic and Digital Performer
    -Comes with a complete drum sample collection

    I have used it with both DP 4.5 and Nuendo and it works very well. They offer some nice samples on their website and other collections are available. They do have a demo version available.

    Check it out here: http://www.drumagog.com/

    Hope this helps.
     
  9. vividsonics

    vividsonics Guest

    Hey there "It's That Guy Again"

    Here's what you need to do if you don't have a DAW to trigger drum samples. You need a "trigger to midi converter" like the DM5 or the Roland unit you mentioned. The trigger basically converts a voltage from the transducer connedted to the drum into a midi note. So if you're not using triggers on the original recording you can still convert a voltage from the track you recorded on your Mackie multitrack. Patch the track you want to add triggers to into your trigger to midi converter's trigger input. You will have to experiment a lot with velocity levels (and perhaps gating the original track) to get rid of "false triggers" (the DM5 would be superior for this). Since you're patching an audio track into the trigger input you'll probably want to split so you can have your original track to mix in with it. The biggest problem with doing it this way is the false triggers. You could also record these midi notes into your Tritons sequencer so you don't have to have a split of every track you want to trigger. Then you would line up the Triton's sequencer to the midi time code of your Mackie multitrack. If you record the midi notes in your triton's sequencer you could also go back and edit the hits and velocity of the notes if you really want to scrutinize things. If you find yourself doing a lot of this in the future, I would suggest starting the project by syncing your triton to the Mackie from the beginning so that you can play along with your triton's click track. This will help tighten things up and making editing your sequences a LOT easier.
    Good Luck!
     
  10. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Thanks vividsonics! That helps out a lot. I guess I will need to go buy a DM5 next week or so. And a couple of triggers. And of course some midi cords.
     
  11. vividsonics

    vividsonics Guest

    Howdy "That Guy"
    I wanted to give you just another couple of small suggestions. If you're starting out with some triggers from the get go, you may want to sync your Triton's sequencer to the Mackie recorder so you can play along with it's click track and record your your drum hits on the fly. It will be MUCH easier than syncing up the Triton that way. Also digging into your "virtual" drum set program on the Triton a little bit can yield better results. Most of the time triggered drum sounds can sound too "robotic". Try velocity switching samples so that there are 2 or 3 samples per note that play at different velocities (loudness). So when you hit a drum harder the sequencer plays a different sample than the lighter hits. This will usually give the drums a more "real" sound. Hope this helps. Good Luck!
     
  12. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Well-Known Member

    The DM5 is not the only machine that would do this. You could probably get your hands on a D4 cheaper than a DM5. If you can, find a D4 with the 1.04 OS. Although for your posted needs, that version is not necessary, if you wanted to use it for live purposes, the newer OS version has much better trigger setup parameters.
     
  13. imloggedin

    imloggedin Guest

  14. Dave62

    Dave62 Guest

    Are you in Protools?? I have been using SoundReplacer for about 6 months now and it just rocks for syncing up drum samples. IMO, with impulse triggering it is almost impossible to blend your new sound with the original because it will be flamming all over the place, and if your replace the sound it may still flam in the oheds and hat mic. Dave Fries
     
  15. bounce

    bounce Guest

    AND if you're in Pro Tools and don't have Soundreplacer, use the "tab to transient" feature and just paste in a new kick sample on a new track and blend or the replace on the same track (or new playlist thereof) depending on what you need dynamically. If you are blending, you will probably want to tune the sample to the pitch of the original kick for more realism (original is probably bleeding into the other mics). I used the D4 and DM5 years ago and either can work with some fancy finagling.

    mckay
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    FYI---I do not use a computer. I have a 24 track hard drive recorder.
     
  17. bounce

    bounce Guest

    Righto. DM4 or D4 it is then ; ) There are other trigger devices out there as well (roland, clavia, drumkat, etc.). Some have samples built in, others just convert your signal to MIDI which would then trigger an outboard sampler, etc. The Alesis one's just seem to be the most cost effective ($150-250 used). Party!

    The other option is to go ahead and place a trigger (the "trigger perfect" DW ones work great) on the kick next time you track.

    Hope this helps!

    mckay
     
  18. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Other than the Alesis D4 and the DM5, are any of the other products rackmountable? I really DO NOT need the built in sampling on the Alesis products.
     
  19. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    these are not sampling products
    ... but they do have samples built in
    and you will find that most drum trigger units have samples built in

    just ignore them if you wish

    many of these units are not rack mountable and are designed to sit near the drum kit on a stand for ease of use and trim
    V-Drum
    Ddrums
    Kat
    DTX

    http://www.harmony-central.com/Drums/EDW/links.html
    no time to find better links
     

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