MKH 80/0 as main mic - Samples, anyone?

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by d_fu, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    Looking for some samples (or even comparisons with other mics) with the MKH 80/0 as main mic in AB, ORTF or similar setups in orchestral, organ, or choir recordings... Would like to get an impression.

    MKH 20/40 etc. need not apply... :lol:

    Large (wav) downloads are no problem, I can also provide some ftp space for a direct upload. Files will be treated confidentially, of course.

    Thanks.

    Daniel
     
  2. FifthCircle

    FifthCircle Well-Known Member

    Let me search my archives and see what I can find. I doubt I have anything with just MKH80's, but we have Schoeps MK21's and MKH80s as the mains and flanks in one of the halls where I do a lot of work. I've gotta have something to show you though. :cool:

    --Ben
     
  3. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    Thanks...

    What would you (or others) think of the use of the 80 as a main AB pair, compared to e.g. KM 130/1 or other standard AB mics. I know the 80 is no pressure transducer, but still...

    My impression of the MKH 20 has always been that of a certain lifelessness, hard to describe. Wonder whether the 80 is similar. I've read someone describe it as a "natural, but a little pale."

    I've recently bought one (don't have it yet) and I'm wondering whether I absolutely need a pair, i.e. whether it will automatically make all my recordings ten times better... :lol: Otherwise I'd use the one as my secret weapon for "spotting" soloists or so.

    My standard main mics are KM131 (sometimes together with Beyer MC803 as Straus packet) or AKG 460 (Jim-Williams-modified) with CK62.

    Daniel
     
  4. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    I have a couple things on piano, though the engineering's not all that great.

    Here's a 24 bit wav clip with a pair of them in Blumlein, down low catching lid reflections. They were mixed with wide omnis for the final recording.

    Here's a high quality mp3 of a wide, distant omni pair.

    Hope these help.
     
  5. aracu

    aracu Active Member

    A possible downside of the Senn800 is that they are
    probably not ideal close spot mics, in spite of the
    cardioid polar pattern options, because they can
    sound too detailed and hyped up when close to a
    source. If they are far away enough they can sound
    smooth and natural, ideal, as long as the room doesn't
    have an inherent resonance problem, which they
    could make more noticable.
     
  6. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    Yes, I heard the mix... Didn't like this recording much. Your recent Mozart was far better... :wink:
    Omni or cardioid? Same hall as the Mozart?
    It sounds a tad dull. Very detailed though, no detectible noise.

    Good MP3 also, need to look at that LAME thing.

    Thanks.

    Daniel
     
  7. larsfarm

    larsfarm Active Member

    As it happens I do have a couple of snippets of pipe organ recorded with a double setup. I did that as an experiment. I used a pair of MKH800 in blumlein and a pair of 4006TL in AB (ca 60 cm). They were on the same stand, same height (1/3 up the organ case), same distance (ca 5m out from the facade), recorded multitrack. This is a small church and a small instrument (16"pedals). I have since found that the rather weak bass in this instrument is better caught with omnis further out towards the sides instrument (where the pedal pipes are located) and I'm sure there are other things about the recordings, but for what it's worth...

    I haven't got much space so the samples are mp3 (192kbps) and wont be up for ever...

    best regards
    Lars

    http://www.farm.se/ljud/0702/buxtehude_4006tl_ab60.mp3
    http://www.farm.se/ljud/0702/buxtehude_mkh800_blumlein.mp3
    http://www.farm.se/ljud/0702/bach_4006tl_ab60.mp3
    http://www.farm.se/ljud/0702/bach_mkh800_blumlein.mp3


    orgel050904.jpg
     
  8. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    Lars,

    Tack så mycket.

    Very interesting.

    A lot of the difference may be due to Blumlein vs AB more than DPA vs. MKH. The MKHs appear almost clinical, with more channel separation, whereas the DPAs tend to be a touch blurred (in comparison). Hard to say which is "better".

    The two actually mix quite well...


    Best,
    Daniel
     
  9. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Just an interesting note....

    I recently was shown by Sennheiser corp a new version (prototype) of the MKH800. Instead of a pattern switch, both the front and the back diaphragms had their own output. In other words, there was a 5-pin XLR output sending one signal for the front and one for the rear diaphragms. This means that you can record both signals independently and change the output later in the DAW. Any pattern would be available during recording OR mixdown.

    Currently only 4 of these mics exist, but I've been promised that they would let me use 2 of them whenever I wanted so long as I loan them my Amex number...

    I know...it's a bit off subject, but I thought you guys might be interested to know of a potential future development out of Sennheiser.

    Cheers -

    J.
     
  10. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    Reminds me of the Josephson C700... I wonder who used that idea first... probably neither of them... probably someone back in the 60's or something...

    too many ellipses...

    ?
     
  11. rfreez

    rfreez Active Member

    reminds me of pearl ds60 and family...
     
  12. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    MTG UM 930 provides similar functionality (upon request).

    BTW, I've changed my nick, as you may have observed...
     
  13. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I'm not familiar with the UM930. I'm familiar with the M930 or the UM900....

    BTW...what was your old nick? I don't recognize your handwriting.

    Cheers,

    J.
     
  14. FifthCircle

    FifthCircle Well-Known Member

    One of the things I've noticed about the MKH80 is that there is a level of detail that the other MKH series mics don't have. When I used them in our hall as an ORTF pair, I found that I had to position them much further back than any other mics we'd get in there (including DPA, Schoeps, other MKH, etc..) The top end was a bit more present on them, but it worked well. The one characteristic that they do have in cardiod that is similar to the MKH40 is the low-mid bump in the sound... I found that things just got woofy sounding pretty easily. Great mics, though, and I'd love to have a pair or two of my own.

    As for the 2 output version. I have mixed feelings about mics like that. It is an old trick. The Neumann QM69 works that way. It is a 69FET with 4 outputs. You can then flip phase and dial in what you want to create any pattern manually. The problem- twice as many channels are needed (pres, converters, etc..) and that functionality is usually not needed in most of the shows I record. I'll put of some decissions until post, but mic pattern is not usually one of them. I do create strange patterns with my stereo mics (AKG 426) to make odd halls work well. However, I can't say that I've ever gone into post saying "Gee I really wish I could have made that blumlein a little less figure-8."

    --Ben
     
  15. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I don't know...
    I've had occasion to think "gosh, I wish I could pull back that omni a tad"
    I agree the channel count is a big sacrifice for such a minor issue.
     
  16. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    I sometimes do this kind of thing with DIY wide cardioids, aka Straus packets... Omni and cardioid. Recording them separately lets you add just the right amount of directivity to the omnis...


    Daniel
     
  17. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    I had two opportunities to try a pair of MKH 80s as AB main mic. The second time I tried them against a pair of Neumann KM 131, and to my surprise, I like the Neumanns much better in this particular recording (a slight 10k boost won't hurt them, though). I posted some samples over at GS,(Dead Link Removed)
    The "reach" of the MKHs is amazing, though.
     
  18. larsfarm

    larsfarm Active Member

    deleted/L
     
  19. d_fu

    d_fu Guest

    Now I'm curious... :shock: :D
     
  20. larsfarm

    larsfarm Active Member

    Sorry about that. I just found the same weird phasey sound on another recording that I hadn't noticed before. Could be me, not you. I need to review my playback system. I just got a new Fireface 400 and maybe I set it up wrong somehow. Wouldn't be fair to judge your recordings or the two microphones from my errors, would it?

    Anyway FWIW, the one time I've used a borrowed KM 83 pair (reasonably close to the KM130) I was very pleased and I've been very pleased with a pair of MKH800 too and I've also been able to screw up seemingly simple recordings with bad as well as good mics, so judging mics from one single recording is hazardous at best.

    L
     

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