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Monitor speakers and room size... a disheartening dilema!

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by awerwe, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. awerwe

    awerwe Guest

    I'm putting together a bedroom studio and was at first thinking about getting the KRK V6 MKII's for my near field monitors new at guitar center... Then I saw that I could get a set of legendary Mackie HR-824's used on ebay for about the same price ($700 range). My main reservation is that my room might be too small for speakers of this size. The dimensions of my room are 15' deep (including closet which is stuffed with clothes) 10' wide (with a full size bed in one side, however that may effect the acoustics), and about 8 1/2 ' high. The walls are typical plastered walls with insulation and the like... So do you guys think that getting a speaker like the HR 824 would be a good idea for a room like this? Furthermore, do you think getting such a speaker from ebay is a good idea? I'm pretty clueless, so please indulge me as much as you can, thanks!
    -David
     
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Just my opinion, I'm not really wild about the Mackie speakers, even though I use them regularly at Voice Of America. I do like the KRKs much better (which they don't have at VOA). You may also want to investigate a sub woofer as well?

    JBL/KRK regular abuser
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  3. awerwe

    awerwe Guest

    Hmm, that's interesting that you prefer the KRK's over the more expensive and reputable HR824's... I've listened to the KRK V6's and thought they sound really nice. Haven't heard the mackie's yet but I've read a lot about how they are pretty much the industry standard for near field monitors, as well as what all other monitors tend to be bench marked against. My issue is more with how much bass my room can handle. Would a 6 inch driver be more sensible than an 8 inch?
     
  4. dougosborne

    dougosborne Guest

    Re: Monitor speakers and room size... a disheartening dilema

    No such thing as a speaker too big for a room.

    Your goal is to play the full range of what you can record, and the full range of the medium on which you will deliver this (CD, etc.). That range is generally 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. Neither the KRKs nor the Mackies go down that low in any situation, so each are a good choice depending on your taste (unless you want to get big enough speakers or add a subwoofer to make the KRKs or Mackies truely full-range).

    There is such a thing as playing a speaker too loud. High frequencies will proabably have no problem since this is largely a factor of distance (as long as the speakers drivers and amplifiers can play loud and clean enough, which at your listening distance shouldn't be a problem). Low frequencies (down to the limit of the speakers you choose) should have no problem with speakers such as these in a room such as yours, but room dimensions will have a dramatic impact on the flatness of the bass frequency response. In a perfect world you will treat your room so bass reflections that cause standing waves and room modes will not effect what you hear from the speakers.

    There is such a thing as uneven frequency response from speakers, and your room and the placement of the speakers in your room will affect this dramatically, especially in the bass area, as above.

    As for getting them from eBay, eBay is irrelevant - the purchase is only as good as the seller wants it to be. I actually purchased some of my monitors (JBL LSRs) on eBay, and the seller performed admirably. The best purchase is almost always from a trusted, local authorized dealer.
     
  5. jonyoung

    jonyoung Well-Known Member

    I'm using 824's in an 11x14x9 control room, which I treated with bass traps and diffusers. Before acoustic treatment, I did have a bass standing wave problem (not huge, but enough to cause translation problems). Loud monitoring levels are indeed the problem in small spaces, but why punish your ears anyway? Listening for proper bass levels in a mix is best done at low levels as well.
     
  6. awerwe

    awerwe Guest

    Thanks for the helpful advice... My "studio" also has a full size bed in the room... would this work as a bass trap by any chance?
     
  7. dougosborne

    dougosborne Guest

    You never know...

    I have a sofa in my home recording studio (read: living room), and I believe it tames some problems, but I haven't done definitive testing.

    "Bass trap" is a misnomer. What a bass trap tries to accomplish is to tame broadband reflections which change the bass response of a room in a non-linear fashion (they cause room modes and standing waves). Ethan Winer has some great information on this subject.
     
  8. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    There's a LOT of mis-information here.

    1 - KRKs over Mackies is not an uncommon issue. In fact, you'll find that most people prefer it this way. (Many people do NOT like the Mackies.) They are industry standards simply because they filled a void for a while at the right time.

    2 - Yes, there IS such a thing as a speaker which is too big for a room. Many if not all speakers need the environment in which they exist to work in harmony with them. My Dynaudio BM15s would be unlistenable in your room. Simply put, you need some distance for them to "open" up. Hence - Midfield monitors vs nearfields and far fields.

    3 - A bass trap does more than a broadband absorption device. A bass trap is a very specific kind of broadband absorber.

    Just some thoughts.

    J.
     
  9. TeddyG

    TeddyG Well-Known Member

    A. 10x15 feet seems fairly large -- to me..?

    B. 8" speakers ARE small.

    C. 6" speakers would be large if they were in a pair of headphones.

    D. 18" speakers are large.

    E. I like the Mackie 624's better than the 824's(Smooth-er).

    F. I did not like the(One pair of) KRK's that I DID hear?

    G. Buy the 624's new - no EBay! Maybe get a sub sometime?

    H. For $500, I will buy the Yamaha MSP5's, new, and

    I. Spend the "extra" money elsewhere(I need no sub).

    J. Like on a new keyboard, my "enter" key is shot.


    TG

    Hey! YOU!! POSTER!!! You must not buy speakers until you HEAR them! Price be-damned! To believe that you are "into sound" and to buy the main sound items - sound-unheard? Ridiculous!

    REMY: VOA? Wow! As a lifetime SWL(At least for as long as there WAS SW to L to? Sigh...), I'm impressed! Cool!
     
  10. dougosborne

    dougosborne Guest

    ummm That's entirely subjective (If you want to know, I do not like either of them), so this is up to the OP. Certainly, no one can objectively support KRK over Mackie in every situation, or vice versa.

    The OP was asking about "big" and I addressed that. His issue is not with the directivity and balance characteristics that determine near- v. far- or mid-field monitors.

    I just can't support the idea that there can be a speaker that has too much low-frequency extension. And there is no such thing as a speaker that is too loud for a room, of course, as long as we have a volume control.
     
  11. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Yes Teddy, I'm actually doing sound for television for them. The division I'm working for a used to be known as the USIA but the Clinton administration merged them into Voice Of America. Everything goes up to numerous satellites and downlinked to their respective countries. The " sound" is just the worst! And unfortunately they are equipped with Wheatstone consoles. Crappie headroom, crappie equalizer's, no built-in dynamics processing and starting to become intermittent. There's even a TV control room for studio 49 that has a 32 input Mackie! Ughhhhhh! Your tax dollars at work. But it's a gig that pays me $33 per hour to sit on my butt. This is one of those places where they think any video person can do " sound" but an audio person can't do video. Go figure?

    Frustrated Voice Of America
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  12. awerwe

    awerwe Guest

    Well I folded and bought the KRK V6 series 2's with the RP subwoofer... $1100 in all including the four mogami balanced cables. I hope I made the right choice as I'm going to be paying these babies off for a while... Thanks for the advice you guys. I'll certainly be back in dire need of more help soon enough... now back to setting up my new monitors. :)
     
  13. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Cool kido'! I think you will love that set up? I know I do.

    Monitor monster
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  14. TeddyG

    TeddyG Well-Known Member

    Sad(?) fact is that you will likely enjoy and get much use out of any of the speakers in similar price/spec range - the differences are often slight to very slight to imaginary. What you bought will be fine- now learn to use them.


    Yes, Wheatstone(Of bridge fame, I believe, somewhere in England, no doubt?) - are they still around? Indeed, sound is a terrible hindrince to the average video person's properly white-balanced life... Of course, lucky for you we are talking televison here(Ha!), so we don't have to work hard at our soundcraft to please them(They're still around, aren't they?)... A Mackie can be "fine", in some instances(Lots of 'em in local broadcast/cable - where sound matters even less...), but in a VOA control room I would expect something a tad on the, ahh, better side? Ah well... USIA? United States Information Agency??? Did sound a bit "cold war" then, eh???

    Can you tell I'm re-reading the Sherlock Holmes stories, lately? Halloa! Ya'know, if these stories were put out today, the later stories(Post Holmes "death"), the Holmes/Watson relationship, would be sounding rather queer, say what? The two seem to work together awfully closely - Watson's wife forgotten, Sherlock and John finding many excuses to hold hands in the dark..? The movie might be called "Broke on the Moor"??? I love these dear fellows, though!

    Cheerio,

    TG
     
  15. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Tah tah!

    I think I'll have a pint
    Ms. Remy Ann Davidkukytuyfgtfjug hic
     
  16. CharlesDayton

    CharlesDayton Active Member

    First,
    $33/hour!!!!!! Thats what our gov pays for a TV mix???? I only know L.A. prices, but it seems like you are under selling your self, and your wonderful depth of knowledge and experience. Also with that equipment, you should get hazard pay.
    B)
    Awerwe, moot point seeing as you have made the purchase, I don't care for the Mackies either. I use them at one of the studios I freelance at, and I keep fliping the alt speaker switch to the NS10s (which are no party either) or the crapatious TV speakers.

    Cheers!
     
  17. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    $33.00/hr...does that include any benefits? How's the coffee? That computes to roughly $65K/year, which in the DC area means....?

    I have a Wheatstone that I bought last year for $600.00 because it looked great in the front room: 27 meters (most still light up!), a slew of half-assed faders, and the most godawful smeared-sounding preamps known to mankind. I use it as a desk-not the Brit term, but as a...DESK!!! The computer keyboard sits atop the Aux masters, and I keep dropping paper clips down the fader slots! Maybe that will help it....At least the meters help keep the work area well-lit.
     

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