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Music Albums: 1966-Present (NO FLAMING!)

Discussion in 'Recording' started by JesterMasque, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. JesterMasque

    JesterMasque Active Member

    Probably two of my favortie recording styles of all time are Led Zeppelin's "II" and "IV" albums and "The End of Heartache" (Killswitch Engage) and "The Oncoming Storm" (Unearth), both produced by Adam Dutkiewicz. I have a few questions regarding them:

    1. Regarding II and IV, what techniques were used in recording and mixing/producing and what were they recorded on? They are honestly my favorite sound drums for anything not metal.

    2. Regarding the Adam Dutkiewicz albums: How does he get such a full guitar guitar sound? Granted that TEoH was a bit more compressed and TOS was more raw/raunchy sounding, in both albums the guitar sound is beautifully put together. Does anybody have any insight to the techniques used to record these guitar tracks?

    Please keep this a flame free topic. My music passions may not match that of yours. If so, keep to the rule of, "If you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all." I say this merely because I see far too many people bashing metal and the recording thereof all too often.

    I hope to hear some responses soon. Thanks everybody!
     
  2. TVPostSound

    TVPostSound Guest

    Tape!!!
    Page who produced their albums was famous for incorporating multiple "ambient" mics. Open the studio door, and put one in the hallway, down the stairs!!! It added a full sound, inclusing natural reverb, and delay.
     
  3. JesterMasque

    JesterMasque Active Member

    I know it was tape, haha. Hmm, I never thought of ambient micing for delay and reverb. Also, since I am using for a time delay effect, I need not worry about phase? I guess that is the reason that I never used too much ambient micing with my direct is because this fear of phase shifting was instilled in me.

    Does anybody know how the direct micing was done on the drums? What kinds of mics and where, for example?
     
  4. drumist69

    drumist69 Active Member

    Here's a link to Glyn Johns' drum micing method. His brother, Andy Johns, co-produced or engineered a bunch of the Zep stuff back in the day...

    http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/glynjohns.htm

    Great minimalist drum micing, although for modern metal, probably not the way to go. Just putting it out there! Andy
     
  5. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Regarding Zeppelin and recording. (my personal favs are I and Physical Graphiti). Both Zep I and Physical Graphiti are classic examples of ambient micing. I believe PG was recorded at Alistaire Crowley's mansion. Wasn't one of the tracks on Zep I recorded with an amp in the hallway?
     
  6. TVPostSound

    TVPostSound Guest

    So did Eddie Kramer, but Jimmy Page never used the same engineer twice, so the public would not equate their sound to the engineer. Page was very very hands on, and the sound was his.
     
  7. drumist69

    drumist69 Active Member

    Yeah, I've heard all sorts of stories about Page getting in the engineer's face. I was just pointing that out in reference to the original question of how to get a Zep type drum sound. Well, that was part of the question anyway. And this is part of the answer, maybe! Andy
     
  8. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    Acrylic drums for starters. That's what Bonso used.
     
  9. The End of Heartache is one of my all-time favorites, too, JesterMasque. I don't know about specific techniques but Adam's great ear for production is backed up by his training at Berklee and great equipment: he's got a wide range of top-shelf guitars and amps (Framus, Caparison, Mesa Boogie) and I'm sure he insists his clients use that same caliber.

    His work on the newest Underoath album also portrays him as a really laid-back and easy guy to work with. Maybe it's the level of comfort he brings that makes the performers play more comfortably on the recordings.
     
  10. MediaMurder

    MediaMurder Guest

    IF you like TEoH, you really need to get their new album 'As daylight dies', and check out another band Adam D produced called 'as I lay dying'. He produced their newest album 'An ocean between us'.
    Patience, a good budget, a good education and good musicians usually ends up with a good recording. But being a little more well off than most of us definately helps him produce bands a little better.
     
  11. JesterMasque

    JesterMasque Active Member

    I have ADD and I LOVE the past two As I Lay Dying albums. Adam did Frail Words Collapse (which I personally did not like anything about it except 96 Hours) and then the latest album, but not Shadows are Security. The new album is absolutely incredible though, music wise. Prodution wise, the guitar sound a bit more raw, very similar to ADD. It sounds great, but I personally like The Oncoming Storm's and TEoH's more polished (compressed?) sound.

    I too have a great assortment of equipment and about thirteen years of guitar under my belt. I matured a lot of my skills through recording over the past five years. I am just 'generally' unhappy with how my guitar sounds in my recordings by comparison to these albums. When compared to other local studios my tracks sound monster. But I know that my guitar equipment and playing can equate to a sound at least similar to those examples if I could just figure out my weak link in the audio chain.

    Also, perhaps some of you may be a bit mislead from my post. I am interested in the micing techniques for the Zep drums for non-metal applications. So, anything else you guys know about how they were done would be great!
     
  12. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    Aw-ite.

    Using these search words [micing john bonham drums] @Google, select "A Thunder of drums."

    This excerpt from the book yields tons of information that I suspected was already known.

    Like the acrylic drums he used AND the fact that the bottom heads were not removed as was the norm at the time [and is still used even though many have no idea why they may be doing it] in respect to r-n-r drum recording/playing.

    This causes a drum to ring but with the use of large rooms and ambient micing, specific tuning of those acrylic undamped drums, John Bonham was able to get the sound that >he< knew was there and generations still lust after.

    This at a time when close micing damped drums was the hottest thing going.
     

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