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Near Field Monitors again...

Discussion in 'Monitoring & Headphones' started by Baiano, Oct 28, 2002.

  1. Baiano

    Baiano Guest

    Alo amigos e amigas.

    I`m still trying to figure out what monitor I should buy...At the beginning I was heading for the cheapest so I ordered a Behringer but it never came...now I am already doing some "profitable" pre-production/recording at home so I`d better buy something better/more expensive...Like everyone I was heading for the Genelecs or Mackies but I just discovered the Dynaudio B-6s so the choices are getting more difficult now,to make things worse I also love the Event 20/20...
    Everybody says Genelecs are the next industry standart,but I dont like those 1030 APM that much they are too bright and I am looking for bass response (Electronica/dance),I might ending getting the Genelecs anyway since those American-made monitors (Mackie/Event) are so expensive here in Europe (importing taxes),so far my favorite are the Dynaudio.
    Can anyone with more experience help me with this one????
    Saludos amigos.
    Baiano.
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    The Dynaudios are an excellent brand. Very well respected. KRK and Haffler are less expensive alternitives to the Dynaudios. If you can find a used pair of Yamaha NS 10's you can't go wrong with those either. Any of those speakers will serve you very well
    .....Fats :w:
     
  3. tubedude

    tubedude Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Go to your local hi-fi store and look into a pair of Paradigm mini-monitors or Reference Studio/20's... then at least you'll get to hear them 1st. The stereo image on these is very *excelent* and they sound excellent and are relatively flat.
     
  4. jajjguy

    jajjguy Guest

    I too mix on Paradigm Mini Monitors. I like them a lot, they are great for the price, sound great and pretty honest. BUT I find it difficult to get the midrange, particularly upper midrange right with them. I have become convinced that this is what distinguishes good monitors from "flat sounding" hifi speakers, like the Paradigms. A friend has KRK V8s, which I don't like listening to, and which seem to my ears to somehow mis-shape the sound in favor of the midrange. But the key is, you can really hear the midrange very clearly. That's what many people say when they praise NS-10s, that they're very detailed in the midrange. When I shop for better monitors to replace my Paradigms, this is what I'll be looking for.
     
  5. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Yes Sir! You are correct!......... and Harrumph! Ugly factor! That's what MONITORS should sound like! The ugly truth....not all dolled up in a dress, dancing around for Bubba! That is exactly what makes NS 10's s widely accepted. Thousands of engineers rely on them daily but I can hardly imagine them going home to a pair. No way, at home they listen to the Paradigms....I do! The KRK V8's are an excellent choice also. I really like KRK speakers and I find them very reliable for making critical decisions. .......... Fats
    :tu:
     
  6. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Somewhere Between The Desert and The Left Coast

    Ahhhaa I get it.. Refugee from Area 51!!!

    Just Kidding fats, we love ya!!!

    (hope you are having a humorus day, I am! I just did precision machinework all day at the office for a bunch of 10K POTS. Damn they look good..perhaps I may need to take a picture of them..all 15 of them..I got my holes within 12000ths. Had to cut all the shafts too!!!, then cutting the homes for 1/16 allen set screws...like a damn watchmaker)

    I get joy from doing precision machinework (just like SP does)...Bill, all covered with Machine tool cutting oil.....
     
  7. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Bill,
    It's like this;

    :D
     
  8. chrisperra

    chrisperra Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    roland rsm 90's or ds 90's are decent. they are sort of like the genelecs.

    not as good though, the imaging and stereo placement is better on the genelecs but the rolands are pretty good for the money. especially the unpowered ones.

    roland is worldwide so pricing and service should be ok.
    if you can afford it get the dynaudios though.

    chris perra
     
  9. Baiano

    Baiano Guest

    Yes,I listened the NS 10 latelly and hated them...I fell pity for all those engineers/producers who used them for decades...The Dynaudio BM 6 are my favorites at this level,but sooo expensive,even the Genelecs 1030APM are cheaper here...I dont like the Rolands either... But I know I`ll have to spend all this money someday...Maybe I`d better wait for some new stuff at the Frankfurt`s MuzikMesse...
    Thanks for the posts.
    Ciao.
    Baiano.
     
  10. basper

    basper Guest

    I'm pretty much in the same position and I was kind of hoping to like the Tannoy reveals, but I didn't. So far the only monitors I have listened to that i could see myself living with for a number of years is the Dynaudios. I have only listened to the bm15a (and not the bm6), but they are mighty fine! I really don't want to spend that much, but as it looks I'm gonna have to. The search continues...
     
  11. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Thanks anyway but I don't need your pity! I have recorded records that are available at Tower / Virgin and Amazon.com the world wide. I'm not rich but I'm happy!!!
    I don't know how many times I have to say this but,.... NS 10 aren't supposed to sound good! They are supposed to sound accurate!. You can take a pig and put lipstick and a wig on it and it may even look pretty good but it's still a pig!. The "pig" in this case (metaphorically speaking) is your production. "Putting lipstick on it" is running the sound through a pair of "good sounding" speakers. Run it through a set of NS10s and you will see (hear) it as it truely is....a "pig". Make it sound good on an honest system and all of a sudden you don't have a "pig" anymore ...... and it will "travel" well. ...... Fats
     
  12. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    "NS 10 aren't supposed to sound good! They are supposed to sound accurate!." -

    Aw, cmon Fats - "ACCURATE"? I've NEVER heard anybody claim that! I've listened to stuff on NS-10's and ran away screaming.

    I know literally 1000's of records have been made using NS-10's, even though most people use "real" speakers also, to check the freq's the NS-10's don't reproduce, but it can't be because the NS-10's are "accurate" - When I've listened to them, all I heard was hyped mids, no bass, and OK top end.

    Granted, I've not personally mixed anything on them, but from the listening I've done I would think that the reason so many successful records have been mixed on them is that they DO hype the mids, and as such they would clue you in to the fact that you have too many things fighting for the midrange band, and with that mid-hype of the NS-10s, you would REALLY notice the crowding.

    Also, in today's market, even if I WERE to suddenly decide I couldn't live without NS-10s that would only make me MORE afraid. The word I get is that there are mostly roached out NS-10's out there for sale, that have either been blown or at least abused, and that sound wrong even for NS-10's - Where do you go for parts, when the item has been dropped by the manufacturer?

    What I use for a quick "confidence check", after mixing on KRK's with a 24 dB/octave crossed Yamaha sub, is a Sony cassette boombox that has "CD" inputs on RCA's. That tells me whether I should even bother to get off my ass and take a CD to the living room or car, or to keep working on it...

    I can see calling the NS-10's an "industry standard", since you can't find a picture of a serious console/studio without seeing a pair sitting somewhere close, and I realize that they expose mid-range warts well - but I sure wouldn't call them "accurate" without limiting that to sounds above about 120 hZ or so...

    There, did I successfully start a new war yet? Never let it be said that I pick on SMALL groups, (hehehe) Steve
     
  13. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Well they are... down to about 80 Hz. Very flat in comparison to most other small monitors. The bass and treble aren't all hyped up. That's what makes them great. I like the KRK's too and when it's time to replace my NS 10's that's most likely what I'll get... but my last post was in response to the "pity" remark.... yeah he feels pity for engineers in all the major studios...yeah, right! Fats
     
  14. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Yeah, agreed on both counts - KRK's rock, and I too really "pity" all those poor bastards that hafta do exactly what they want in their good-paying day jobs...

    Myself, I've always been the guy designing, repairing, modifying or setting up the gear - now, I've finally gotten nearly to the point of having everything I need to be able to do my OWN thing, and DAMN it feels good... Steve
     
  15. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Knightfly posted: (speaking about NS 10's)
    Steve,
    NS 10's don't hype the mids, so much as not hyping the bass and treble. The thing I notice about NS 10's is you can really tell when the low mids, 200 to 500 Hz., are "loading up" in your mix. I just made a rough mix of the first 16 tracks I've recorded in my new DAW system. I burned off a quick reference CDR to take to a friend so he could listen to it and come up with some jazzy guitar fills for the verses. He will come over to my place and record the parts tomorrow...He popped the CDR into his boom box and the mix was perfect! His family were all oohing and ahhing about how good it sounded! I didn't have to make any excuses for it "being a rough mix". First try....how many can say that? I mix mostly on the NS 10's with checks for extended lows and highs on my Tannoy DMT 12's...a quick check on the Auratones tells me how it will sound in a car or boom box. I couldn't do it without all 3 sets of monitors but if I didn't have the NS10's ugly factor, it would just be so much more guess work, poke and hope until I found something that was acceptable. Steve, I swear, if you would try NS 10's for a month, you would never go back to girls.....ha ha ha ha! ....... Fats
     
  16. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    "Steve, I swear, if you would try NS 10's for a month, you would never go back to girls.....ha ha ha ha! ....... Fats " -

    Soooo, Fats, are you using the woofs or the tweets as a girl replacement? 'cause if you're using the woofs, I'm definitely outa my league :=)

    Seriously, if it weren't for the obsolete/questionable quality factor on used NS-10's and replacement parts, I would most likely buy a pair, if nothing else to add to the choice factor. Right now I have a small set of JBL's, Tannoy PBM 6.5's (I absolutely HATE titanium tweeters) and KRK K-ROK's (5, 3 shielded), a twin 8" Yamaha sub and a Hafler 10" 200 W sub - oh, and the Sony boombox I mentioned earlier - thinking about those Yamaha sets with the MSP-5's and dual 8 sub to use at the keyboard station, but need to budget for two new computers, 4 19" flatscreens and an interface that will work best between my DM-24 and Samplitude/Sonar (both of which need upgraded), plus want at least 4 more channels of quality pre's and a few dozen more mics, so more speakers will have to wait their turn.

    Too bad Bill Gates doesn't feel the need to adopt a couple of "older sons", or we'd both have it made, huh? Signed, EFCOF (you have to ask if you wanna know...)
     
  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Steve,
    I'm sure there's some NOS NS 10's somewhere...probably cost a fourtune! I'll venture a guess and say due to popular demand Yamaha will re issue NS 10's in the not too distant future...at a significantly higher price...like $500 each rather than the $300 a pair they were selling for a short while ago....the girls thing was in ref to your mix's will get you a "chubby"...... Fats:D
     
  18. sign

    sign Guest

    Fats, the NS10 has a 7dB peak at 1500hz, not exactly flat :)

    http://www.dillonacoustics.com/Loudspeaker_plans/Yamaha/Yamaha_XOYA1.htm

    I love my NS10's although I hate their sound. But the point is, when it sounds decent on NS10's, it will sound better on almost any speaker :D
     
  19. Baiano

    Baiano Guest

    Hi everybody.
    Yes I am sorry for all those bastards who spent half their adult lives listening to the NS 10...Like I feel pity for all those keyboard player who in the "old days" had to carry their Fender Rhodes around to play gigs...I am happy that I am a beginner and just started messing with recording in the DAW era,so I never messed with analog (my first compressor is a plug-in...),we might be at the pre-history of computer recording and we are all a sort of pioneers...
    You producers/engineers with Tower Records/Amazon CD`s have just missed a thing: This is a beginners thread and we beginners usually will have budget for only a near field set,every pro studio that has a NS 10 in it has also subwoofers and a extra set of larger monitors....but we beginners can only afford a good/versatile near field set (nothing to do with the NS 10),for us beginners a NS 10 set can be as good as a trap for fishing lobster...I plan to buy a "good/versatile" monitor and still use my hifi monitors as an extra reference...now if we can go back to those Genelecs 1030 APM,Dynaudio BM-6,Mackie,Event and so on...
    Thanks and dont be sorry for my ignorance...
    Baiano

    "It`s raining a lot these days here in Lisbon-Portugal"
     
  20. sign

    sign Guest

    Baiano

    I listen every day to those crappy NS10 monitors, not for mixing, just comparing, and I can tell you if the vocals are in balance with the music on NS10, it will translate good on any decent hi fi speaker.
    If the guitars are to loud on NS10, they are really to loud. So the NS10 is a speaker that sound like a wet morningpaper, but at least you can trust them, and that's why they have gotten so popular.
    The only problem are the lows under 80 hz, but put up the volume and you will see the white cones moving like hell! :D
    I have had them all, the small Tannoy's, Genelecs, KRK's, Alesis M1 and more of these babies, but I still trust the NS10.

    I hope you will have the opportunity someday to record something with really good gear like Neumann tube into a great pre and hi end converters or a 2" 16 track. From there to a hi end console like 9098i or a really good digital console. And then listen to your monitors again!

    I hope you will get there!!! :w:

    Peace, Han
     

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