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Near-field Monitors positioning....

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by kfrick, Aug 8, 2003.

  1. kfrick

    kfrick Guest

    OK, I've heard everyone say to place your Nearfield Monitors in an equilateral Triange to your listening position. I'm fine with that.

    But I also remember concerns with Phase distortion when speakers are angled towards the center.

    So, which do you prefer?

    A) Nearfields pointing STRAIGHT OUT, parallel to each other...

    or...

    B) Nearfields pointing to your head, in the "sweet spot"....

    ?????
     
  2. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    B) Nearfields pointing to your head, in the "sweet spot"....
     
  3. helguz

    helguz Guest

    sweet spot
     
  4. paulpreamble

    paulpreamble Member

    Equal distance apart and from your head, facing towards your head
     
  5. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    the center of the woofers better be aligned with the center of your ears. Just imagine a straight line .
     
  6. Hack

    Hack Active Member

    I have the mackie 824s. Right now the center of the woofer is pointed at my ears. If I raise up a few inches I get a touch more high end. Think I'm sitting in the right spot, or should I be up a little? I havent worried about it yet cause I move around a lot when I mix.
     
  7. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    ya need to get accustomed to the HR´s.
    It has been extensively discussed here that they are not exactly accurate.
    Sorry, this is my opinion.
    Nice weekend
    :)
     
  8. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    the sweet spot needn't be imo super constrictive. What I think is the most important is:
    1. close to the equilaterall triangle.
    2. close to ear level height with the components...if anything the tweets, they give you the freq's with the most directionallity.
    3. Speakers not to wide apart, error on cloeser together than wider...otherwise you get a hole in the middle, and put a huge innacuracy in mono content (how much of the mix is up the middle?)
    4. Volume. Listening at all volumns is important. The the maority...and especially relative balance descisions is best made at super low volumn. Having it quiet and being close to the monitors in this tight triangle will help fight the problem of not being in a professionally built and tuned control room. The louder it is the more energy into the room the more reflected sounds from the room back to the mix position. Think about this alst one for a minute. We're their to mix for it to sound good everywhere forever...not to "dig" how great it sounds loud now...it always sounds better loud now.
    5. You must know how to deal with the bottom end confidentl to do #4. So listen to lots of cd's of stuff you want to emulate to learn what stuff sounds like in your mix position. Also listen to your mixes and the same cd's on a variety of systems (including headphones).
     
  9. Hack

    Hack Active Member

    I know there are a lot of mixed thoughs about the 824s. I dont think they are flat. But I got a great deal on these, and figure I can get used to them. I listen to a lot of music (not recorded by me) on them, and I rely heavily test cds that go to the car, home, computer, blown speaker, ..etc...
     
  10. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    I recently moved my monitors closer together based on comments from Recorder Man, and it has made such a huge difference in my sound, it is amazing!

    They used to be about 7.5 feet apart on nice stands, but they are now about 4 feet apart on top of some desktop mounted racks...Just awesome the difference in sound!
     
  11. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    If you are new and haven't gotten a pair of monitors check out Kurts review of the yamaha MSP5's. they're really cheap, especially considering that they're poweres (pick up a pair for $500).

    [ September 04, 2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Kurt Foster ]
     
  12. by

    by Guest

    I was always under the impression that room nodes and such act basically the same under any volume of playback, even the lower volumes. Isn't that why testing room acoustics using low amplitude sine waves is just?

    I don't own any of my own near-feilds, I've only a PA system. I've never tried mixing on it. A friend just bought himself some b&w speakers (800 series i think) I've yet to try those out, do ya think it's worth it? I know so little about speakers...
     
  13. 3dchris

    3dchris Active Member

    by,
    the higher the volume, the more your surrounding reflects the sound..or rather "affects" it. Also the further away the monitors are from your ears the more "room sound" is added to the original sound. I always monitor at very low volume...just so I can clearly hear all the instruments. That helps the mix a lot.

    About B&W speakers. I have a pair and they are very nice...but only as home speakers :) Don't get me wrong, you can mix on anything (yes, even headphones!) but to save yourself from growing grey hair fast you need real monitors for mixing.
    Trust me on this one! :)

    chris
     
  14. Ethan Winer

    Ethan Winer Active Member

    Chris,

    > the higher the volume, the more your surrounding reflects the sound..or rather "affects" it. <

    At mid and high frequencies, the ratio of direct to reflected sound improves as you get closer to the speakers. But the skewed response at low frequencies due to reflections is caused by a different phenomenon, and is not improved much by being closer to the speakers. And a poor low end response is the bigger problem in small rooms.

    --Ethan
     
  15. kfrick

    kfrick Guest

    Hi guys, remember me? I started this thread. (LOL!)

    My room is 20Wx20Lx14H. Hope it's big enough to hold music!

    Thanks for the info on near-field angles. My mixing station faces into the room, with my back to a wall, my back is about 3feet from the wall in my mixing position.

    I did my first mixes on the new boxes over the weekend. Hear Here:

    I'm Not Afraid

    Give It Up
     
  16. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    An update on my take on the near-field positioning aspect of this thread. Many of the newer active nearfields have controsl to help compensate for positions up against a wall, etc. Make sure you investigate those settings when do your set up.
     
  17. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) RM, I understand your approach, with the levels, and the tweets. IMO an adaptable arrangement. BTW, in my 70's photo above, the woofers of the 4311's are on top, I am at ear level with the HF drivers.

    There is something special about a room and speaker interface. Things seem to blend so, even if your not doing critical center image adjustments at that point, there is this blend of the low and mid and high bass that say's YES! Space that allows deep sounds to develop. I guess that is the listener side of me.

    The settings on speakers provided for placement in a corner, or up against a wall cannot perform properly IMO. There is way more going on than just a 6db roll-off of bass per surface, wall +6db, corner +6db more, wall, corner and ceiling or desk +6db more. That's +18 db of possible boost of low end.

    The EQ required to correct this reflected, and reinforced low end would be like trying to make a room flat with 1/3 octave EQ's, and the bottom of the EQ curve would end up stair stepped down almost all the way from about 250hz. I think the designers who thought of using this approach do not fully understand it's effect on the speakers performance, and tried to simplify a correction by simple EQ. Not a good practice for more than a few db of correction.

    However, some speakers do require some proximity to a wall to re-enforce frequency's in the sub ranges, if your speakers go below 40hz, or 30 hz, and are not rear ported. Bass trapping would be the only way to absorb the energy into corners, or rear wall if there is a rise of general bass. It may take a bunch of them too!

    --Rick

    :p:
     
  18. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Rick, absolutely and honestly I agree with you and all about having aproper room. I'm jsut trying to give guerilla advice and ideas for those who have no other option. When I'm not in a real room it's what I have to do. It's far from optimum but you do what you have to do.That or do nothing at all. Some people here have no budget (i'm guessing). Or little. My advice is for them...not the guy that can call up Vincent Van Haaff.
    On that note, I've forgotten to metion, that when I set up in a box or rectangle I quickly scope it and set myself up in the bets location, location willing, that gets me awat from walls, using the live end dead end as bet I can. Stuff like that.
    :p:
     
  19. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) RM, and good advice too! I understand and I am restricted myself at present, without knocking out 3' x 18' of wall, and having to move the power system etc. I am greatful to have space I have now.

    --Rick

    :p:
     
  20. Ethan Winer

    Ethan Winer Active Member

    RecMan,

    > Many of the newer active nearfields have controls to help compensate for positions up against a wall, etc. <

    Unfortunately those controls don't solve the real problem which is comb filtering. They can give an overall low end shelf, but that's not what causes the most damage in an untreated room.

    --Ethan
     

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