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need help getting my mixer hooked up properly..

Discussion in 'Recording' started by BoomTastic, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. BoomTastic

    BoomTastic Active Member

    15 year old Peavey XR800D.

    Got a few questions here. First off, I need to know if i have my two main speaker hooked up properly...please help a noob out :D

    Pic 1

    img0508ts.jpg

    Pic 2

    img0511cp.jpg

    Pic 3

    img0512e.jpg

    Pic 4

    img0513q.jpg

    Pic 5

    img0514q.jpg




    So right now, i have 1 speaker hooked up like this:

    Both cables plugged into the Bi-Amp hi and low in( PIC 3). Then both cables plugged into the mixer PWR AMP OUT LEFT ( PIC 2).

    then pther speaker...

    Both cables plugged into the Bi-Amp hi and low in( PIC 3). Then both cables plugged into the mixer PWR AMP OUT RIGHT( PIC 2).

    is this correct?


    Pictures 4 and 5 is how have my keyboard hooked up...is it correct?

    also...

    I want to use another speaker for a monitor, but I dont haven an external ampifier. in the peavey manual, it says i have to bridge RIGHT GRAPHIC IN to LEFT OUTPUTS MON. A together. ( they are right next to each other)....

    But, then my two main speakers will be mono according to the book. in the book it shows once you have it bridgged, left output will be main speakers and right will be monitors ( PIC 2)

    Is there any way i can have my two main speakers in stereo and use the other speaker as a monitor without an external amp?
     
  2. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    The speaker and keyboard setup will work as you describe for normal stereo. However, it's not usually necessary to run two cables to the speaker bi-amp inputs. A single cable from one of the two 800D output jacks to one of the Full Range input jacks on each speaker is sufficient, provided you use good-quality heavy-duty speaker cable.

    The keyboard patching looks fine. Pan channels 1 and 2 hard left and hard right respectively, assuming you have the keyboard L output going to channel 1 and the R output to channel 2.

    The 800D has only two power amplifiers. You can use these conventionally as the left and right stereo power amps or one for driving the main loudspeakers in mono and the other for driving the monitor loudspeakers, also in mono. If you want to retain stereo main loudspeakers, either use an external power amp to drive the stage monitors or use a powered stage monitor that has its own internal amp. Drive the external amp or powered monitor from MON A or MON B output, depending on whether you are using Monitor A or Monitor B for your foldback mix.
     
  3. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member


    No! Use the "Normal / Fullrange" inputs on the speakers.

    Not only is it unnecessary to use two speaker cables to each speaker, but if you're using the hi / low inputs, as you describe, you will damage the speakers.

    Your speakers have an internal 1200Hz crossover (to divide which frequencies go to the horn and which go the 15" woofer)

    The outputs from your mixer are fullrange. When you run the second cable to the HI input of the speaker you are bypassing the speaker's internal 1200Hz crossover and sending fullrange to your horn. This will destroy the diaphragm of the horn. It cannot reproduce bass, but will literally die trying.


    Run a single speaker cable from the output of the mixer left channel to either of the normal / fullrange inputs on the left speaker.
    Do the same for the right channel.

    Also, you have two channels of amplification. If you want to run your speakers in stereo and you want a separate monitor mix - there is no way around the fact that you will need another external amp.

    So your choices are either

    A) run your speakers in stereo and buy another external amp for the monitors or

    B) mono your SP5 speakers by plugging both cabinets into the left side of the XR800D [or daisy-chaining one cabinet to the next via the normal/fullrange jacks]
    ... then connecting your monitor(s) to the right side and patching a cable on the front panel of the mixer as shown in the manual. (Mon A to Graphic in R). Note* if you do that, make sure you have all the mixer channels panned "center", otherwise they won't be available to both the main and monitor mixes.

    Good luck.
     
  4. BoomTastic

    BoomTastic Active Member

    I tried that before, in fact i just tried it now. With one cable plugged into the full range, and say one into the left speaker jack of the mixer, i only get sound from the woofer....the tweeter doesnt work. With two cables plugged into the full range, and two plugged into one side of the mixer, it still does the same thing. No tweeter, just woofer.

    Hopefully no damage has been done, because i have had both cables plugged into the BI-Amp HI/LOW and the same two into one side on the mixer. I had both cables connected to bi amp because that was the only way both tweeter and woofer worked together. Weird, because it sounded good actually...

    So now im really lost. Why is there 4 jacks on the back of the mixer? And what does it mean that they are paralleded? why is there two full range jacks on the speakers?

    does this have something to do with the cables themselves? maybe they are incorrect or faulty?
     
  5. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    Parallel means you can drive 2 cabs separately (no, not that kind of cab, it's a term for speaker).

    When you run cabs in parallel, the ohmage goes down (increasing power but increasing heat generated by the amp). Sometimes it's necessary, but generally not ideal.

    There are 4 jacks because the 2 pairs have 2 parallel jacks each.


    BTW, should I ask?
    asspedal.jpg
     
  6. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    I have a question that maybe Bos or DVD could answer. If the speakers were daisy chained and since they are 8 ohm impedance we end up with 4 ohms of resistance. If instead we run a seperate speaker wire from each of the paralleled outputs on the right side of the amp to each individual speaker cabinet is the resistance 8 ohms each? Or do they sum to 4 ohms because the amp is paralleled?
     
  7. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member


    Crossover= fried.

    Since the bi-amp inputs switch the crossover out and it all works,then if you are putting something through the full range inputs and thus through the crossover and not all is correct, its the crossover.

    Its not a real elaborate crossover....a coil and and a filter cap....maybe a resistor or even an internal in-line fuse to the piezo. I'm pretty sure thats what the 'horn' consists of on that cabinet. Thats whay you cant really blow it up hooking it up the way you have. A piezo simply is a redundant load and really needs no crossover.

    I have been wrong but it seems the most likely scenario.

    BUT. You shouldnt need anything more than a single speaker cable from the amp outs to the full-range ins on the cabs. That would be proper. I understand since you are playing a keyboard the desire for stereo for a lot of the sounds....so to monitor you will need another power amp. Or suffer in mono.
     
  8. BoomTastic

    BoomTastic Active Member

    ok, i think i understand the bi-amp thing. Two seperate amps running the tweeter and woofer. One Amp for the tweeter and one for the woofer.

    Full range, the cross over splits the signal to the tweeter and woofer.

    So, does my mixer does have capablility to run the speakers in Bi-Amp mode? Or would i need other amplifiers?

    If the crossover is fried what are my options here? What would happen if i continued to run both wires to the hi/low biamp jacks from one side on the mixer? ( probably what blew up the crossover in the first place right?)

    Can the crossover be replaced?

    And im still confused about wh there is two full range jacks on the back of the speaker...is this so you can connect one speaker to the other in series using the the two full range jacks?
     
  9. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    The two full range jacks are in parallel and yes, it is to daisy chain another set of speakers.

    I dont know if the setup you are using took out the crossover. It seems unlikely since it is probably past the crossover.

    To use the bi-amp section you need two power amps (or one stereo amp) and an electronic crossover. The crossover in the speaker cabinet is passive and as I said is probably no more than a coil and a filter cap. Yes it can be repaired and usually fairly cheaply.

    I dont know if you can damage the system as you use it now, but I would certainly repair whats broken regardless.
     
  10. BoomTastic

    BoomTastic Active Member

    its appears that my keyboard is equipped with an ass pedal :shock:


    Well, i called peavey, and the technician said that it was unlikely that i fried the crossover....that the mixer doesnt have enough power to do that. Plus, the speaker have maybe 3 hours of use...and they were only used by my keyboard and microphone... and not turned up loud....low power stuff..

    So he suggested that corrosion on the jack terminals....inside the mixer and speakers.....

    also, said corrosion may be a factor inside whatever electronic stuff on cross over itself, that the full range goes through the Biamp, so if theres a problem with it, it may effect the full range....or something like that....arghhhh i dunno

    And i thought...well, they have been sitting for 15 years, were shipped overseas in a container ( salt in the sea air).....i looked at the terminals inside the speakers and they seem ok i guess....the terminals in the mixer dont so hot though.. a litght dusting of green on them...

    And i took more notice to the cables, and they are ancient...

    so first things first, im gonna bring the mixer and speakers to a music store, try some new cables, and if its a no go, have them figure it out..

    I just want to use the dang equipment already! :x even the keyboard had issues that i had to deal with :roll:

    but i guess thats to be expected with this dinosaur equipment thats sat around....

    ill let yall know how it turns out.... 8)
     
  11. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    Typical bi-amp situation starts with a full range signal filtered either by an EQ or using an active electronic crossover unit and then fed to two amps and on to each driver.
    I think the pictures indicate two output jacks from the powered mixer for HI into the cab and one LO for each channel L/R.
    So one HIR, one LOR, one HIL and one LOL....(LOL)
    The internal crossover input is split at the HI/LO connectors and combined on the Normal.
    In normal mode you can parallel off to another cabinet (amp feedthru)
    mixer will drive 2 cabinets at 4ohms@200watts max.

    And DaveDog is correct if you connect it up normal and it works but one of the drivers doesn't work in the HI/LO mode....more than likely the crossover has a problem...
     
  12. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    I agree with DaveDog the crossover is probably already shot. Or a previous owner may have trashed it. Some have internal fuses.
    There's no way to tell what failed when. But I can guarantee you that if you power the horn/tweeter without a crossover the horn's going to fry as well. It may not happen at low volume right away, but it will happen.

    (I don't care what some Peavey "technician" told you on the phone)

    it has less to do with power than the distance the voice-coil is capable of traveling.

    EDIT* re-read DaveDog's reply regarding piezos. I had not considered the possibility of it being a pseudo tweeter, such as piezo. Because I can't for the life of me imagine why such a cabinet would ever be any more useful bi-amped. But that is one explanation that would keep the tweeter from scattering.

    However, curious enough to download the PV SP 5-Ti manual which states the horn is a 2" compression driver. And if that's what you have I stand by my original assertion that it will not tolerate being run full-range for very long.

    Anyway, believe me - don't believe me. Do it however you want, I'm just trying to save you some repairs.
     
  13. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    JG the resulting load to the amp is the same.

    It doesn't matter if you use the parallel jacks on the cabinet or the parallel outputs from the amp. The cabinets are still in parallel and the nominal impedance will be the same [4-ohms in this case] as far as the amp is concerned.
     
  14. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    There's no way you can feed the tweeter full range with either jack anyway.....the HI still goes thru the internal crossover from either jack! Hi or Normal
    Check each jack one at a time Hi Lo and Normal and see what the results are....it's either an open or short....more than likely the output cap on the crossover is blown....if it was a short your amp would have grunted a bit!
     
  15. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Interesting. So the Low has the switched jack on it not the Hi?? I havent looked at the PDF schematic to determine all this.

    If this is the case, and the horn works when its plugged into from the Hi in in 'bi-amp' mode, then its probably only a wire off. Doesnt Peavey spade connect all the speakers?

    A long trip in a shipping box could loosen this up.

    Maybe I'll look up the schematic and see whats what....BUT I am a lazy SOB....
     
  16. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    Davedog:
    I didn't look at the schematic either, but I've seen other cabinets that have "bi-amp" capabilities using a "full range" input.
    They usually design the crossover such that no matter what you plug in...the internal crossover still splits to each LO driver and HI driver. Split or Normal
    The only thing you need to do is create a split path into the crossover because the output of the crossover is always wired directly to its appropriate driver....if that makes sense....you could do that with lifted or switched input jacks
     
  17. BoomTastic

    BoomTastic Active Member

    I wasnt trying to say the tech is right and your wrong.....or that i dont believe you...

    I know that you know your stuff....as always, thanks for the help :)
     
  18. BoomTastic

    BoomTastic Active Member

    another dumb question...

    The difference between a stereo and a mono TRS jack is that the stereo jack has two insulating rings and the mono has 1?

    The cables i am using have one insulating ring...so i assume they are mono...and for sure they are probably at least 20 years old....

    Do i need a stereo TRS jack for the full range to work?

    Just trying to see if have overlooked something simple....

    Thanks for being patient guys :)
     
  19. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    There will be no TRS jacks on that speaker cabinet nor on the speaker outs of the board.
     
  20. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    switchjack.jpg

    From what I've read PV used a switching jack on the HI input. Like the one shown above (if not in appearance, at least in function). Compared to a normal TS 1/4" jack on the right, you'll notice the extra blade on the jack on the left and the little nub that has to make clean contact so this can act like a normally-closed switch. When there is nothing plugged into the HI jack, that contact should be routing your signal through the crossover. When you plug in a speaker cable it separates the blades opening the switch and disconnecting that contact. That tells the crossover you're in bi-amp mode - which should in effect take the crossover out of the path. Some contact cleaner and/or some gentle adjusting (bending) of the switching part of the 1/4" jack maybe all you need to 'fix' the crossover.



    This is another one of those things someone with an ohm-meter and a screwdriver should be able to get to the bottom of in 2 minutes.


    You are correct in identifying your cables as mono if they have just one insulating ring. The tip of the connector is positive, then you have the insulator, then the long metal sleeve is the negative. That is the correct connector for your speakers. You just need normal 2-conductor unshielded TS cables for speakers.
     

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