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Need help rewiring a C414 i just bought

Discussion in 'Recording' started by orbit, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. orbit

    orbit Guest

    I didnt know if this is the correct forum but i need help rewiring this mic....but i bought a C414 today, from craigs list local, for 500$. it says C414 but no EB, its not any of the new models...it has the brass ring capsule as far as i can tell (its all brass <shrug>)

    the base of the mic is like a weird screw in type thing and it looks like its basically a 5 pin xlr female that connects up into the body of the mic, and it looks like the cable that tethers down to connect to the actual mic cable to the preamp, this short little 6 inch cable doesnt look like it came with the mic...

    so there is a fatter white cable, i presume the XLR, that was soldered into the middle pin (5 pin female combo connector i think??) and it looked like there was a little piece of metal going from that pin to this little ring on the outside (like a ground or osmething?)....then 2 skinny wires, a white and a red....these were soldered into pins 1 and 2..........the trouble is that i dont remember which was soldered to which. i was going to just guess red 1 white 2, but then i realized with phantom power guessing might be A HUGE mistake....


    ive sort of researched it and it seems that i might have a multi thousand dollar mic on my hands, for only 500$ :)

    can anyone help me figure out which to solder to which?


    ps.....some of you may be thinking why did i unsolder it in the first place? well as you can see the wires are pretty messed up and they didnt seem very stable, also, that little ...what i theorize is a ground connection to the chassis of the casing of this little connector....was not connected, and when i tried the mic out i couldnt get the bottom connected very well and so most everything was loose but especially the connection it kept going BURP if i moved it and would cut out and yeah it was just not right so im trying to resolder it....
     
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    I know what your handle is ORBIT. IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE A SPACE CASE!

    What the heck are you doing purchasing a microphone for $500, taking it apart, unsoldering stuff and not documenting it? The connector that you have no clue about is the European version called a Tuchle. It's what all of the European microphones used to have.

    You're not the brightest gold sputtered diaphragm in the microphone locker are you??? In fact this microphone may not even be phantom power capable?? You may be hard-pressed to make that microphone work? There were numerous other ways to power microphones that were also popular in Europe that aren't even known about in this country, USA.

    What you need to do is pack it up and ship it back to AKG and hope they don't charge you another $500 to fix it! Yes, that's the old C-12 capsule. That doesn't make it a valuable microphone. In fact, I don't think it's worth what you paid for it. I think you were little over anxious? Learn from your mistakes you just made good one.

    Yes, my eyes are rolling around in my head in disbelief.
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  3. orbit

    orbit Guest

    okay remy im done with you....

    you have only ever provided adviced in the most cryptic and degrading way possible, and are extremely good at alienating people that only want to learn about audio. is that so much to ask?

    yeah it was stupid to not remember which pin was soldered where...tell me something i dont know you effin hag, i just remembered why i stopped posting here...

    when i purchased the mic i plugged it into a phantom power pre and tested it...it worked, other than the fact that when you move it around, the messed up wiring would cause it to drop out/reacquire signal which of course meant big spikes and stuff like that....

    the mic was owned by a career engineer from california who tragically died in a car accident recently and his ex wife is selling the mic... its a pretty good chance this is a phantom powered mic that, in my (apparently) extremely wackfucked logic.

    its so sad because you obviously have a great amount of knowledge, unfortunately you have no other way to impart that to others, short of tearing them down and to what end?

    i hope you feel awesome everytime your menopausal immaturity takes over and you get to kick a kid to the gutter....please just curbstomp me and get it over with



    EDIT: also i think that the value of the c12 is quite evident as per the auctions on ebay, a single mic selling for easily 2k....i could care less about what i could sell it for, im just a newbie trying to get my hands on what i can....................FFS
     
  4. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    When you take anything apart you don't know about, you document it. Sure, the microphone may function on phantom but it may not be designed for 48 volts! That's what the P48 designation meant. Some were designed to work on lower voltages and would sound great on 48. Until they blew up! Sorry you don't like being scolded for being stupid. This is a European bastardized, possibly modified microphone that may not have any available documentation. You're going to have to do a fair amount of research or turn to an independent microphone specialist for service. So what were you thinking anyhow?

    You're right, I'm very knowledgeable. I help a lot of people. I teach a lot of people. And you're not paying me for the hundreds of hours I've devoted to this forum. The information you provided & the mess you've made is not adequate enough for anybody to help you with this. GOT THAT? And unless it's an original tube C-12, your old pre-screwed up 414 is worth less than what you paid for it! 414's of almost any variety, in good condition, USA models, can regularly be had for $650. That's for late-model P-48/EB/B-ULS/TLII/XLS, etc.. I don't care who your friend was. If he had taken better care of his microphones, it wouldn't have been intermittent. Although I'm sorry about his demise.

    Now you know.
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  5. orbit

    orbit Guest

    so you're either telling me you dont know how to help me....or you're telling me that im screwed no matter what?

    please, let me be one of the many people that you help....less cryptic, more answerish, less rubshitinmyface.....

    this wasnt a friend....it was a post on craigs list and i figured okay cool a c414 for half the price....when i got it i was like....it doesnt look exactly like i remember the pics looking...i get home and i look things up....okay it looks to be old....i figure that i cant be the only person, on a GLOBAL forum, that has one of these mics....my bass is a unique hand made one of a kind made by a master luthier.........but this mic, is NOT, unique....

    please please please please please please please PLEASE....just for once, give me an answer that can start me on a path towards bettering my situation....that is the purpose of these forums, not to lash out at people and degrade them.
     
  6. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    OK Orbit, you're right. I'm sorry. Here are some more constructive suggestions. Again, please accept my apology.

    Here are my thoughts. You should be able to obtain schematics of the earlier version 414's. There should be a certain degree of similarity in the circuitry. It's going to require you to trace & compare everything to your available schematics. A phantom powered microphone only requires three connections.

    Try this
    http://www.gyraf.dk/schematics/AKG_C414_old.GIF
    http://www.gyraf.dk/schematics/AKG_C414B-ULS.GIF
    http://mixonline.com/basics/education/audio_mysteries_vintage_mic/
    http://mixonline.com/recording/applications/audio_microlution/
    http://www.schematics.ca/uploads/PDdownloads/akg_c414_old.gif

    At this link:
    Jamb?
    I believe the C414E1 is most similar to yours? You'll notice the 5 pin connector wiring diagram.

    I hope this helps?
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Although yours has 4 patterns & a pad. No low-cut filter. So that 414E1 may not be quite correct for you but similar? But as you can see from that particular one, it's not phantom powered. The capsule is polarized separately on pins 4 & 5.

    Remy Ann David
     
  8. orbit

    orbit Guest

    i dont have an available schematic, unless you mean the ones that you linked...i found 2 of those earlier while trying to figure this out on my own before i posted.

    i am not sure what you mean by trace and compare, even if i had a hard copy schematic. as you probably guessed, im not well versed in reading electrical schematics...i did in high school for a short while and its really not something that comes easily to me.

    the pin in the one you suggested is indeed 5 pin but unless im mistaken, that is 3 more pins than i even have. i assume this is where your explanation of phantom power required only three connections comes into play. and as i explained, i know that the middle one is the fatter white one.

    how can i figure out which wire to solder, of the 2 wires that are the unknowns?

    theres only 3 wires so i had assumed this is something like a standard XLR, it certainly is that way on the connecting cable?

    this is so depressing....had i had any inclination that this was anything other than what is widely available.............ugh
     
  9. orbit

    orbit Guest

    http://mixonline.com/online_extras/akg-c414-comb-sheet.pdf

    this is my microphone. please can someone help me decipher it?!
     
  10. orbit

    orbit Guest

    actually i think pin 1 is red and pin 2 is white..................i remember rot and weiss from taking german in high school (unfortunately only for a very short while)

    that is what it looks like on the very right side of the schematic, but also in the middle there is a connector diagram like mine that is way differently wired than this mic was when i got it. the one on the right matches what i started with, red in pin 1 and white in pin 2, pin 6 getting the fat one....i assume its the ground <shrug>


    it also says 7.5 to 52v universal phantom power so i think that we're okay on that one....
     
  11. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    OK then, let's see here, if you are referring to the picture that you supplied with those 3 wires? The braided shield with the white piece of heat shrink tubing should be eventually connected to pin 1 on an XLR. The other two skinny little wires, the red one & what appears to be a white one, (hard to tell for your photo) should be connected to pins 2 & 3 of the XLR. Please realize, if connections 2 & 3 are reversed, the microphone should still functioning but maybe out of phase to others. That's usually easy to figure out. If that's the case? Reverse pins 2 & 3.

    So back onto that 6 pin connector, the braided shield goes to that center conductor that also includes a jumper to the shell. Your red & white goes to pins 1 & 2, as evidenced by their solder appearing only in those pins. The other connections are not used. I truly believe that should do the trick. Do you understand what I have just described?

    Also know that most manufacturers include a little disclaimer that goes something like this:

    " Manufacture reserves the right to make changes without notice".

    As if that wasn't bad enough, please know that companies like Neumann who have been producing the U87 since 1968 have had a misprint in their schematic that would prevent the microphone from working if you repaired it & wired it per the schematic. Ampex had numerous schematic errors for the transport control logic for their MM 1200-24, 2 inch analog machine, that would prevent the transport from functioning at all, if you were to repair the machine according to the schematic! When I was brought on board as Scully 280B Troubleshooter/Quality Control Manager/Final Test Technician, for AMPRO Broadcast Products after they purchased the Company from Dictaphone Corp., Dictaphone provided a transport wiring diagram for a different logic control card than what was being used. The machines would work for approximately one week before bursting into flames! So all of this is not cut and dried. That's why it's so important to brush up on reading schematics and learning how to trace wiring. It's just not as easy as you hope this all would be. When you have been dealing with this kind of stuff for as long as I have, it makes you crazy.

    Good luck it?
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  12. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    I even thought I was going that two hours ago at 4:40 a.m., but I've been working on this for you that long. Nothing, nothing matches what you have precisely.

    My name again is? I think I'm tired? Really tired.
     
  13. orbit

    orbit Guest

    if you're as wise as your age, you probaly wont read this til the morning...

    http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/1971-akg-c414/

    is where i got that schematic, which matches the "c414" (purely simply c414) in the link you provided...

    as close as can be, thats the right schematic, the mic named 'c414 comb' in that article is the only pics ive seen that match mine exactly, and have only the -10 db pad, no bass rolloff.

    i am as confident as ill ever be i suppose with this....and although this means nothing really, because as you pointed out, i AM a space case....it was a nickname i earned at my first job at taco bell because im spacey and i and "really out there" according to my peers...as in i am just not normal, out of the box...<shrug>

    oh yeah back to what i was saying before i sidetracked, at certain times tonight i had thought "man i remember the 2 white ones being closer together (from looking at it from the point of view of the gap in the pins being on the bottom...) meaning the red wire is pin 1 and white is pin2....and that is what i had contemplated taking a guess and trying it...

    i do thank you for your help remy, i believe you are sorta like the computer science and alg2/trig teacher i had.....hes much more interested in teaching you how to teach yourself....and thats what i am big on , which is why i suppose i fearlessly took it upon myself to unsolder this, gleaming with excitment because the best mic ive ever touched thus far are the new sm81s i got earlier this week....and well maybe you're right, maybe this is crap.................but its something new to explore and it sure has a nice "energy" to it....like its calling me.....................................yeah im just insane whatever
     
  14. orbit

    orbit Guest

    okay well i got the soldering done....red to pin 1 and white to pin 2....


    the bad news...theres a constant hum..........but it works and it will pickup sound....

    and then if i invert the phase on the preamp, it cuts the signal and i dont hear the hum or any sound being picked up......

    also again when i move the mic around it seems to cut in and out....im not sure my soldering job was pro but what else could cause the connection to cut in and out i wonder???

    these were nice people they would probably let me have my money back if this is just total lemon sauce :p
     
  15. sshack

    sshack Active Member

    Damn, what a thread.

    Maybe these guys can help you?

    Jamb?

    Good luck.
     
  16. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Its lousy being an insomniac. But like I said, your version is the European version. I've not had any cause to pursue all of the European varieties. I'm in the USA. Glad you found the right one.

    You're smart enough to have purchased a pair of my favorites. I liked them so much, I have four.

    So, you said the microphone worked originally but was intermittent. You didn't indicate that it had any hum, which you would have known earlier. If it didn't do that earlier? You're soldering job is bad. If you're inverting phase and everything goes away including the microphone, you're soldering job is bad. If the microphone remains intermittent, it may not have survived shipping? But you should have notified the seller when you received it in intermittent condition. Unless they indicated it was being sold "AS IS" due to its age. Was it shipped insured?? You may have a claim? But with what you've done??? I wouldn't take it back. You probably melted the insulation on one of those tiny wires if you are not a good & professional solderer. I just don't understand why you did what you did? I guess you have plenty money to spend, throwaway? Why not try brain surgery also? You don't need no stinking school.

    ???????? it's the left one.
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  17. sshack

    sshack Active Member

    It's not insomnia Remy, it's just that the older we get, the less sleep we require.

    I marvel (angrily) that I can stay up playing/recording until 4am, go to bed and have my body wake me at 7:30am.

    Grrrr
     
  18. orbit

    orbit Guest

    i still dont see how your internet tough guy attitude helps? i hope you dont get this worked up over everything in your life....i may not be savvy with this electronics stuff, and i may be less cautious than i should be at times....but at least i know stress kills, and i cant believe you'd live a day past 50 acting as childish as you do...

    no shipping............the gentleman is more than happy to refund me as the mic was intermittent in his house, and i passed it off as a soldering job 123 presto to fix it...............okay i had no experience soldering but one of my best friends recently just moved out and i'd seen him solder a hundred things or more and seen him solder mic cable stuff even more times. i figure if it can be done, i can do it with a little practice/trial and error.

    so i took a step in that direction and tried to step up to the plate, because life is about learning. im going to try resoldering it again one last time, (only soldering iron i could find at the time had a terrible tip, just basically a block, no "tip" to speak of) and if it doesnt work then im taking it back to this guy....thank god i bought it from someone who is capable <gasp> of compassion and they wouldnt dare just stiff me...

    the truth is that neither myself nor the person who sold the mic......had any idea what this was until it was in my house and trying to be used....god knows how long this mic has been sitting in his ex wifes storage/house/whatever until she finally decided she could make some scratch...........they quoted half the retail price of a new one....a new one is 1000, they charged 500.....i thought i was getting a fairly new one, in working condition....we both thought it was the normal USA variety, no weird things going on.

    i do have plenty of money to spend lately, but certainly not throw away.

    im not sure when it stopped being "okay" to be human and make mistakes...im pretty sure somewhere down this windy (and apparently very lonely?? trying desperately to understand the cause of your atittude) "road of life" you have been in my shoes or similar.

    you're right, probably melted the insulation...

    do you think that the middle, pin 6, is supposed to have a ..how you put it, a jumper to the shell? it sure looked like from the very start, that this was no longer soldered to the casing/shell, and that it had previously been soldered onto the shell....so i guess im wondering if you agree that it would have been...
     
  19. Greener

    Greener Guest

    Epic thread.

    If I can add two cents, I think you would be stiffing the seller if you tried to return it after you did "a little practice/trial and error" soldering with "no "tip" to speak of".

    Now for the other ninety eight cents. Stop what you are doing. Document what you have done as best you can and call a professional. You don't know what you are soldering where, why and how... If you are going to return it you need to do so in the condition you got it in... Something someone who knows how to solder will need to do, and if they can figure that out they can probably fix it. If they can fix it you can keep it...

    The buck stops here.
     
  20. orbit

    orbit Guest

    worry not, i ran this by the previous owner....what, did you think i just emailed him and said i didnt LIKE the microphone? no i told him exactly what has happened....he feels terrible because he said it was in working condition, when i picked it up, that was obvious that he knew as much as i did when he was making that statement.

    in all liklihood, ill probably take it back to him today because i doubt this will work............and they will throw it away.

    i appreciate the 2 cents but you should really address the ethics of .......other people, not me....im not in the wrong, im just a dude who , yes, WAS overly excited about something that is perfectly acceptable to be overly excited about.

    ps...yes i do think there is an ethical way to treat people who search for help in....................OMG?! a help forum!?
     

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