Need to eliminate sound from speakers in mic

Discussion in 'Microphones (live or studio)' started by MC208, Jul 30, 2018.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. MC208

    MC208 Active Member

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    Success!! Tested the WH20 briefly by playing the guitar and a backing track at a more than decent volume through the speakers and it does a FANTASTIC job of not picking up the sound coming through the speakers. This is great and only $80!!!
     
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  2. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

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    Inverse square law at work.
     
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  3. MC208

    MC208 Active Member

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    No I don't think so. With the RODE, no matter how far away I placed the speakers and how close I put the mic to the teacher's mouth, that mic would still pick them up. With this new headset mic, I'm able to turn the speakers up to a decent volume and notice on the meters on the mixer, that the headset mic isn't picking up any of the audio from the speakers which is exactly what I wanted. Additionally, when I wear headphones, I can clearly hear what's coming into the left channel and what's coming into the right channel, for example, guitar and backing track that we tested yesterday. Before, when I wore the headphones, I couldn't hear the separation because the mic was messing everything up.
     
  4. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

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    A hypercardioid mic has a rear lobe of sensitivity. It may have been getting room sound into the back of the mic. Also, a mic that long likely has ports some distance from the capsule. The effective size of the mic is so large that it can't all get close to the source.

    Then you have the issue of relative volume of the sources. If a distant one is louder then you need even more relative distance to isolate it.

    Either way, inverse square law applies.
     
  5. MC208

    MC208 Active Member

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    Ok well in any case, the problem is solved with the Shure headset mic =)
     
  6. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome.
     
  7. MC208

    MC208 Active Member

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    Finally got around to recording with this Shure mic. While it does accomplish fixing the original problem (minimizing picking up anything except for the voice), it does introduce another problem that I'm not liking. The plosives are too much, whether I use the windscreen or not, or position the capsule away from the mouth, it just doesn't sound great. I can somewhat get rid of them by moving the capsule pretty far away from the mouth, but then it doesn't pick up the voice as well.

    It would seem like this kind would work better since it's away from the air coming out of the mouth, but do they sound good, and would they still minimize the sounds coming from other sources such as guitar pick, and speakers? If so, what should I get?
    HT7_Alyssa_News_0615-thumb.jpg
     
  8. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    You're getting confused again. The mic headset you bought is a cardioid. It's really intended for drummers keys players who need to move around and keep a mic the same distance from their mouths no matter what they're physically doing. Thats why drummers love them, they focus their capture towards the lips, but like all mics in close - wind from breath plosives gets in and it sounds a bit poppy and rough. The other mic in that picture is the exact opposite. They can be extremely high quality and tiny, hence why they are popular for musical theatre, and when positioned slightly behind the mouth edge, are out of the blast. However, they are NOT cardioid, they are omnidirection and their pickup pattern doesn't;t care where the sound is. Two people close together in a stage love scene can be equally loud on just one mic. Its quite common for the sound op to fade one down because two sound nasty and hollow sometimes, nulling each other out. In a noisy environment it will hear everything! It also needs powering of course.
     
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  9. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    I used the WH20 for a while when drumming and I liked it very much.. you can band it and make the placement at the corner of the lips, you'll get less plosives..
    In the end, you need to choose the lesser evil and adapt to it.
    I also used a wireless headset from AKG for a while (playing guitar at the same time), the same limitations applied, althought it was a cardioid condenser so it sounded brighter and a bit more defined...
    https://www.akg.com/Microphones/Hea...wvar_C544L_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current#start=1
     
  10. MC208

    MC208 Active Member

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    So it sounds like you're saying I got the best type of mic for the problem I'm trying to overcome. And the tiny ones like in the picture that sit alongside the cheek instead of in front of the lips - those aren't available in cardioid?
    I hate being able to solve one problem only to have a new one, crappy sounding breath plosives :unsure::unsure:
     
  11. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    It's why you see lots of people who use them sticking on a big foam windshield. Looks daft, sounds better.

    The smallness is a feature of an omni. They only need one small opening, as they are pressure operated. Cardioids need two openings, one in front and one behind and work on the difference in pressure between the front and rear - so are always physically larger. Plus, they need aiming, which means the end needs to be capable of pointing at your mouth, exactly where the wind comes from.
     
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  12. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

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    The Countryman Isomax Headset is one of the least obtrusive cardioid headworn mics I've used.

    Incorporate a high-pass filter to roll off excessive lows and you shouldn't have many problems with 'plosives. They sound good overall, but this may not come as a surprise to you at this point - they're significantly more than $80.

    There are others. The A-T BP894 for example is a micro cardioid earset - even more expensive.

    But bear in mind, if you use a cardioid angled in from the side of the mouth the null in the pattern is now off to the presenter's side. there may be more bleed in that heart-shaped pattern if the speakers in question are in front of the person wearing the mic.
     
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  13. MC208

    MC208 Active Member

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    The Countryman and the other are definitely out of my budget. I did some hunting on Amazon, and came across this:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009NP496Y/?tag=r06fa-20

    And here is the manufacturer's product page:

    https://www.ypamicrophones.com/collections/headset/products/ypa-mh1-microphone

    What caught my attention is that it said it's uni-directional, and in one of the questions on the page:

    Is this cheaply made? Will it "clip" when speaking/singing loudly even when recording well below 0db? Many of these do.

    Answer: No this is not cheap. One of the best mics I own. This is a directional mic, so it doesn't pick up the out side noises. Can't go wrong with the price either. I have shure lapels which don't come close to the quality of this headset.

    Any thoughts on giving this one a shot?
     
  14. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    There are an awful lot of radio mic users who buy these Chinese mics, and by large, they have few problems. If you do a side by side comparison of the omni versions with the popular expensive ones there are some difference. Audio wise, they'd not so smooth, but a little eq usually sorts this out. The biggest downside is that the little clips that allow sizing adjustments tend to clip off, so just need careful treatment. We use them because kids and amateurs tend to wreck mics. We use DPA and Countryman and at over £250 each, we still wreck a couple a week. when you start putting them on amateurs that goes up badly. So we often swap the expensive ones for the Chinese ones, and if they break these - we don;pt worry or even try to recharge them. The thin diameter tubing is very prone to cracking and folding if you bend them, and the cardioid as we've said, needs careful aiming, which is very difficult to arrange. gentle, and graduated bending can be done if you are careful - but a cack handed bend with one hand is guaranteed to break the tube. The small capsule will still need blast protection. I'm quite happy using the Chinese ones for circumstances where using expensive ones will be problematic.
     
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