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New Macs are out!

Discussion in 'Recording' started by SonOfSmawg, Aug 16, 2002.

  1. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    The new batch of G4 towers are out, and there are some new features ...
    *No more single processors. There are currently three G4s offered ... dual 867, 1Gb, and 1.25Gb models.
    *Room for four internal HDDs ... 2 ATA100 and 2 ATA66, 2 IDE and 2 SCSI, or 4 SCSI (SCSI card not included).
    *Dual optical drive spaces ... finally.
    *DDR SDRAM! PC2100 or PC2700 supported, up to 2Gb.
    *GeForce4 MX, ATI Radeon 9000, or GeForce4 Ti graphics cards.
    *OS 10.2 included.
    IMO, Apple really missed the mark on this batch of "new and improved" G4s:
    *Space for 4 HDDs is a great idea, but only if they were to include better support for them. If you want to use 4 IDE HDDs, two of them are going to be stuck at ATA66! 4 X ATA133 and 0,1, 0+1 RAID would have been much more up-to-date, competitive, and impressive.
    *DDR support is also long past due, but aren't they aware that PC3500 is now on the market?
    *The dual optical drive spaces would have been a good idea a year or two ago, but since Apple is now using combo drives, what is the point of the extra space? If you already have a CD/RW and a DVD player (or DVD/R) in your first optical drive space, what do you need the other space for??? Personally, instead of the extra optical drive space, I'd rather see them bring back an IDE floppy drive, for cheap convenient storage of small files. It would also be very convenient for people who are running a Windows emulator.
    *And what's with trying to forcing people to embrace dual-processors? I think a lot of people would rather have a single processor 2.5Gb G4!
    In a nutshell, Apple's "improvements" are half-hearted attempts that fall far too short , are far behind current technology, and are poorly thought-out.
  2. Hey Mr Dragon. Could you spare your opinion/expertise:

    I am about to upgrade my old mac with Cubase VST3.5, to either G4 DP with Digital Performer 3. or a 2.53Ghz PC with Cubase SX, and am leaning towards the pc camp. In either case I am thinking of a MOTU 828.

    - Any thoughts on going for the old 2x1Ghz G4 or the new 2x867Mhz DDR G4, as I hear that the new ones do not even use the potential of the DDR?
    - Any thoughts on going over to the pc camp, due to the rumours that a 2.53 P4 chip runs circles around the G4's, and the cost?
    - Any thoughts on DP3?

    Thanks much for any input!
  3. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    Well, I really can only give you an opinion, as I definately am not what I (or most people) would consider to be an expert. However, I repair Macs for four of the major computer repair shops here in this little city of 35,000 people. I have a G4 and a couple of peecees, and they both have their good points and bad points.
    I've had my G4 for 2 1/2 years with never having a single hardware problem. This thing is rock solid. I'm running OS9.2.2 and absolutely love it. The downside ... it's a G4-400 AGP, and it'll always be that. You can't throw a few hundred dollars at a Mac and have the latest, greatest Mac mobo and CPU. I could add more RAM, but I don't need it. I could upgrade my graphics card, but it's limited to 2X.
    As for peecees ... the fact that they're totally modular means that you can update any component when you want to, and keep it as current with technology as you want to, but the trade-off there is compatibility and configuration issues. If you're careful what you buy to play nicely with your system, and know how to do everything to keep things running smoothly, then peecees are great. Done right, a peecee should be an ever-evolving tool which allows you to upgrade your components to fit your needs and budget. However, since I'm giving my opinion, the downside of peecees is Windows. I much prefer the Mac OS, for clean organization, simplicity, and stability. In my house, we call the "Blue Screen Of Death" ... "Windows Wallpaper" ... lol.
    Given the current technology level of computing, and seeing the future of digital audio recording, my opinion is that, right now, an Intel peecee running Nuendo is the way to go. With the current technological growthrate of computing, within two years host-based recording will be the new norm of the industry. You will be able to run all of the tracks that you could ever possibly want with every bell and whistle on them with ease. The days of being limited to 24, 32, 48 , 64, or even 128 tracks will be a thing of the past, and you'll be able to use all of the plugins that your little heart desires. If you get a peecee now, you'll be able to inexpensively upgrade to the technology that is right around the corner. If you get Nuendo now, you'll be educating yourself to be able to take advantage of that same technology, and you'll be able to keep upgrading Nuendo as this phenomenon takes place.
    I know this didn't answer your questions specifically, but IMO this was the best advice I could give you, and I hope it helps.
  4. Thanks for your input. My thoughts are now going in the direction of building a pc, as the bad reviews Dell gets...

    Why do you say Nuendo as opposed to Cubase SX?

  5. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    You should take up the Nuendo topic with Opus. He's "The Man" when it comes to Nuendo, and also much more peecee savvy than I am. I gave you my opinion since you requested it, but I want our users to get the best possible help, so I'm now steering you in that direction.. Opus is a very cool guy, and will be more than happy to tell you everything you need to know ... in very precise detail.
    FYI, one of our favorite things to do is help people just like yourself ... get you started in the right direction. You can put complete trust in the fact that we will help you get the best possble system for your needs and budget, down to every little detail.
    When it comes time to buy your components, you must be aware that most of the online computer parts retailers are totally unscrupulous. RO members have found that doing business with Newegg and Mwave is always recommended. These two retailers will consistently have excellent prices for everything, and their customer service and return policies are beyond compare.
  6. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Distinguished Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Ahhh...the new Macs with the same old specs as the old ones! Isnt that a line in the Who song...meet the new boss, same as the old boss?!!!
    I had a great disucssion with our director of sales at Apogee where he was asking me if the new Macs are anything special...
    You want to know what I told him? Well, you are going to hear it anyways! ha ha ha ha!
    Basically the new Mac's aren't $*^t. Seriously...if you look at it in a technical manor you will notice several things. One, their ATA bus speeds are still ATA66..Two, their FSB is still under 166Mhz, the L3 Cache is merely a Virtual Memory, Four..Their system architecture is a major bottleneck.
    This is why PC's(Peecees as SOS calls em!) are much faster and are able to handle more tracks..etc etc etc! They have a higher FSB, higher ATA controller specs, faster and larger throughput for data and a better over all system architecture. Apple is scurrying to keep their fan base...but losing them drastically...I see major producers and engineers switching over to PC based systems weekly...Ed Cherney, David Kahn and a few others as well...
    Nuendo is more of a post pro marketed software package and has some amazing features to it...Cubase SX is basically Cubase with Nuendo's audio engine and is now a very very cool software package for the home user and audio recording person. This is truly the way to go IMHO! You can dump Rex2 files right into a track and have it fill the loop in seconds flat...you can do editing and undo's all in real time..no waiting around what so ever..
    There are people doing 24/96 projects in a PC all off of an IDE drive with plenty of headroom to spare..
    I think you get the point. I hate to dis Macs as that was the first platform I ever used but to be honest...they are not what they were!
  7. Dragon Sir and Opus2K. Thanks much for the input. I have put the G4 clearly out of my mind. Even the apple sales folks at the flashy apple store would not disagree with your points.

    The one thing I still struggle with, is creating video clips using a DV camera and video editing software on the same box(and here I show my ignorance again)and using a low (32MB) card such as the Matrox G550 or the GeForce MX440 (64MB). Any other recommended dual display cards? Is the assumption correct that the card only provides output to the monitor and does not affect the quality of the picture/files when editing them? Is that purely a software issue?

    On memory and mobo: Preferences over Asus P4T533-C v Intel D850EMV2 cards, both RDRAM. Or a Asus P4S533 with DDR? RDRAM vs DDR?

    Cheers for your help!
  8. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Distinguished Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Ummm...first off Dragon is not his name...SOS!!!! he needs help in other words! lmao!
    Ok, the video input is the most important part of the whole DV recording as well as what software you use...
    for input..FireWire...plain and simple..this is the best way to bring video into a system..
    Software..Adobe Premiere is the PC platform choice!
    Now as far as the output to a monitor or TV or whatever you choose...the video card will help indeed but as I stated earlier the input is the most important as that truly gives you the capture of the best signal possible.
    I use the Matrox G550 and have recorded from my DV cam into the firewire port and it comes out fantastic...streams nice, no stuttering or slowing down nor any video quality loss..
    Also dependant upon this is your DV cam!
    As far as motherboards....stay with Asus..you want quality reliable boards with many features..you go Asus...you want cheap with no extra features...by Intel or some other brand..just remember this...you get what you pay for!
    Memory...well, RDRAM will be slowly going away to pave the way to new DDR boards and so forth..DDR is cheaper and more reliable and with the new DDR II on it's way RDRAM will be a thing of the past

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