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newbie recording

Discussion in 'Recording' started by vishnu, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. vishnu

    vishnu Guest


    standard 7 piece pearl


    shure sm 58 x 2
    lower end shure X 2
    no-name low end X 1


    crate 100 watt guitar head
    yorkville 200 watt 15" bass combo - with xlr direct to pa


    crate 4X12 guitar cab
    yamaha 15" pa speakers X 2


    behringer pmx2000 2X250 watt ; 10 channel powered mixer

    two rooms available to me, i dont know whether to use one or both
    both rooms


    concrete floors, 4 foot concrete surrounding walls and 4 foot wood
    separated by

    i suppose my questions are these

    1) should i use both rooms
    2) which mics would you use for the various gear and where
    currently no vocals ; ie. mic distribution for the drum kit, how far
    apart at what parts ; micing the 4X12 etc ; room mics ;
    - i just dont know limitations or optimizations for the mics and
    distances relative to their respective insturments ;
    3) any and all suggestions on setup - mic ing ; anything

    - i am recording low fi to a tape deck but id like the instruments to sound as clean and crisp / loud as possible ; as little room / background hiss as possible and try for highest volume on the finished product when i play i back so i dont have to crank my pa master volume.

    -sorry if this is unclear in certains spots; just reply and i will clarify if need be,

    - i play dist punk rock ; poppy verse chorus verse ; loads of distortion ; heavy to clean ; pretty hard hitting drummer ; will not play so loud and hard if it screws things up ; open to all new suggestions and not a problem to alter live playing to tame it down for better results

    -Kwin Cymons
  2. waytogodave

    waytogodave Guest

    Is the concrete in the rooms exposed? If so, cover them! Do it any way you can. If you can't afford soundproofing materials, then use blankets, pillows, couch cushions, anything to absorb the sound so you don't have the super-nasty reflections from the concrete. I'd use both rooms, but experiment yourself. Set up in one room and just jam for 30 seconds, then split into two rooms. I'd set up the drums in one room and everything else in the other, but that might cause problems with the vocal mic. If you can put up a barrier between the vocalist and the other two amps (or at least the guitar,) do it. Since it sounds like you're kind of scrapping together, just used any soft materials you can find. Like I said, blankets, cushions and other such things will be your best bet.

    Now for the mics. You'll probably be using one for the vocals and one for the guitar. That leaves you with three for the drums. Use the SM58s on whatever is most important to your mix. I'll just assume that it's the vocals and guitar (those seem to be the most popular). I don't know how much it will matter what mics you use where here, but I'll say use one of the Shures for the kick. Now this gets difficult. I think you should have at least three more mics than you do. If you can manage those somehow, use them as follows: use your other Shure for the snare. Put your no-name and the closest matching quality mic over the toms, say four inches above the surface. Two mics for 3-5 toms, here you'll have to get creative, but try equally distributing the toms as much as possible. Then I'd use the other two mics as overheads. Place them about a foot or so above the highest cymbal, one on the left side, the other on the right. Again try to place the mics for optimal distribution. An additional mic for the hi-hats is optional, but a good idea.

    Now, if you can't get a hold of those extra mics, use a Shure for the kick drum and hang the other two behind the set on either side of the drummer's head. I'd put them at his/her head level and point them towards the middle of the sound (vertically) but point one toward the left and the other toward the right. Experiment with this, too. You want a little stereo imaging, but you also want a the sound from the drums to come to the mics as directly as possible. This mic setup might be pretty unconventional, but I used something similar a long time ago with a Radio Shack mic and a computer mic! It wasn't the greatest setup, but it could have been much worse.

    Ah, I just read that you're not recording the vocals with it, but I'm too lazy to go and change everything in my post. Still use both rooms, but you can ignore the barrier, unless you want to put it between the bass and guitar cabs. For the drum setup now, use the SM58 for either kick or snare. Use another Shure for the other. Place the other two mics either in the fashion I described above (by the drummer's head) or as overheads.

    Miking tips:
    Guitar- put the mic up to the grill cloth on the amp. Put the ball of the mic near the egde of one of the speakers (they may all sound different, so choose your favorite one) and aim it at the point half-way between the edge and center of the cone.

    Drums- have a blanket or a bag of rice or something in the kick drum and slightly pressing the front head. This will absorb some of the snap, but you don't want to take it all away. Place the mic head just inside the drum head (if you have a sound hole in the front head) or two inches in front (if you don't have a sound hole.) For the snare, put the head at the edge of the snare, four inches above the head, and aim it toward the center or half-way between the edge and center.

    General- these are guidelines from another amateur. Experiment!
  3. vishnu

    vishnu Guest

    thanks very much for your input

    i will try all of these things and perhaps ask you a few questions while im at it. as well perhaps i can put some sound bites with the setups i recorded them with online for your advice. again man i appriciate the help
  4. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Distinguished Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    Silicon Valley
    You can tell you are young and a newbie because your so desprate that you post the same damn thing all over the place. This is the perfect way to get ignored.

    As answered in the Budget forum...

    You have the perfect chance to really learn something about recording if you take the time and pay attention to what your doing.

    No cheating with how I would do it, but a few hints. Things that are much louder than other things don't need to be in the mics as much as things that do.

    What is it that is the most important thing or things that need to be captured for the songs you will be recording?

    Even though the mic may not be poinit at or right next to a source it will still pick up sound. Use that knowledge in how you use the mics and how the players are arranged within the room.

    Make notes of your set up and when you listen back, make notes of what you like and don't. Now based on your fresh experience and your notes, try to make changes that will affect the things you didn't like and yet not mess to much with the things that you do like. Once you have done this cycle dozens to hundreds of times, you will have real and praticle experience that goes well beyond what any one person including me can tell you as to what will work best for you. This is how you learn and get experience.

    It you take the time and are serious about gaing experience and trying to learn from what you do, you will find that it can be fun and interesting and even be a thrill.
  5. vishnu

    vishnu Guest

    actually im older than most know the internet and etiquette

    was a thing of the future,
    my freshness is a thing of recording and not the blogs my internet savvy compadre, only after i finished fixing the os systems we work on did i again venture (after many years of never needing to ) back on to these INTOLERABLE BULLETIN BOARDS, etiquette my friend is for the british, and thank you for your previous posts as they have very helpful in my virgin quest for recording glory. sorry if my spamming hurt you, thanks again for using my technology as i hope it was as useful and helpful in your quest as your advice was in mine, pardon my disruption in your peaceful wave!!!!!!!! i eagrly await your preiviously helpful emails sincerely, however this one has been regretably the otherwise with no help of mine.
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Rude aren't you?
    To boot, it's almost impossible to make any sense out of your posts ... no wonder no one wants to answer your questions (btw what you did is called "flooding", not spam).

    That, coupled with the comment that "etiquette is for the British", no wonder BBs make things "intolerable" for you schmuck .... I don't see why you bother if it's so bad ...??? Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out, dude ...
  7. sndo

    sndo Active Member

    Jan 12, 2005
    Ottawa, Canada
    Home Page:
  8. vishnu

    vishnu Guest

    foster, i specifically thanked audio gaff for his help

    check the times of the posts as i conformed to your etiquette requests before i read this and prob b4 you wrote it. get off my back and ^#$%ing get over this $*^t. ^#$%ing move on. go outside, get off your ^#$%ing computer and look at a tree man. im over it, ive change jurt i really have man. as i stated above thanks for the help, THE ABOVE INFORMATION WAS QUITE HELPFUL AND MY REPLY WAS MADE ABOUT THE NEWBIE COMMENT AND NOT THE RECORDING HELP WHICH IS QUITE HELPFUL

    "You can tell you are young and a newbie because your so desprate that you post the same damn thing all over the place. This is the perfect way to get ignored. "

    ignorance is bliss no? only fuckwits turn their backs on those in need regardless of the severity of annoyance. flooding / spamming, gold jacket green jacket who gives a $*^t.

    bless your soul foster, it thought we had moved pass this in the budget gear thread.
    Kalki Vishnu
  9. sndo

    sndo Active Member

    Jan 12, 2005
    Ottawa, Canada
    Home Page:

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