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OK...next time try it anotherway

Discussion in 'Recording' started by RecorderMan, Aug 11, 2003.

  1. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    I'm glad that amny of you are having good results with the "recorderman" drum oh micing "technique (as if anyone really comes up with anything unique...). Next time do it another way. The only reason I quantified and posted that was in a way to help some of you, relative to getting good OH's. It was a way to stear you into listening and achieving somewaht proper phase and balance in the kit. But the same thing can be acheived, usually several ways. Also, each Song/drummer/kit/room/engineer/equipment offers challenges that many times are best approched with variations on a theme. So if this technique has helped ytou begin to "see" phase and how it works better. Try it another way. Maybe next time, do a typical spaced overhead setup, more traditional, over the cymbals...very quickly be aweare of certain things. Snare center, maybe. Or see that all of the cymbasl in question are going to get a representation. Also, depending on the type of song and the stregnth of the kit make choices as to what to spend time on reinforcing. In that case maybe some of you have used this technique to quickly get past the overheads and spend more time on the rest of the kit. One thing is for sure, the trend of quick sounds is an expentation more and more. How ironic when now almost more than ever one has more tracks, mics, etc than ever. Geoff Emerick many times took up to 3 hours to get a bass tone four four track. Pluses and minuses.
    I guess the bottom line of my pint is don't rest, keep listening, learning and striving...and don't get bored.
     
  2. by

    by Guest

    ...that goes without saying

    wooops! did i say that!?

    recorderman you've been helpful, i'm sure. I'd like to add that I'd love to spend three hours getting my kick to sound right, and I've definately done that in my own private time, but other then that I've not found the right people to work with that can handle that. They are unfortunately impatient as all hell. I once spent an hour getting the drums sounds (using just a few mics - no it was not "recorderman's" method at all) and the drummer and the rest of the band were convinced I was a retard because "it took forever" and explaning to their girlfriends over the phones "Oh.. you know, technical difficulties and such, our engineer is sloooow" DAMN THEM! they don't know anything about the complexities and aurel excitement of the beautiful art of recording. i take great pains to do things right, but also while making comprimises because I know they'll go apeshit if they are forced to sit around the tv any longer (god forbid! nomore GameCube, pleeeease!) okay, i'm not being completely serious here, more silly..

    If there isn't a FAQ for this forum, maybe there should be. and one of the main rules is that "there is no definate rules" you may have to crank the EQ knobs backwards and inside out to the god-forbidden lands to achieve the sounds you want. and you may have to stick a mic into strange and unussually uncomfortable (comfortable?) places to get sounding like a "pro".

    i'm not great at explaining my point, and i'm no pro. when i started recording stuff six years i was using the method similar to recordermans (although, of course i didn't know $*^t about recording other then what i learned myself through just expirementing)... anyways, that album sounded pretty good, the drums were definately OKAy sounding. the next project I worked on I did something radically different, placing mics behind the drums. I was going for that meatier tom sound, and I surprised that with hours of trying this out, i got a really deep unussual beef sound... okay now i'm rambling and shifting into self-center mode...(sorry)

    ... great forum though!
     
  3. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Back in the day when I was working a 'pro' studio...(ie.getting paid fer it)...when the bands would come in for their tour and discussion of rates, we would give them a rider and explain that getting a great drum sound was doable as long as they were willing to 1.pay for it...2.do the drum setting on a different day than the actual sessions.

    This worked out often and we gave them all a special rate for the drum day.Usually the first hour at rate and then a bulk price for the rest and a 6 hour block at which time if we indeed got quality results in less time and they wanted to call the bass or the band in we would record a bit at the reduced rate.They always went for this and we always got great results with no harried running around.
     
  4. Catoogie

    Catoogie Guest

    A special rider and day to get drum sounds? That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

    I realize a lot of people work this way but I think that is being WAAAAY too anal about sounds. Throw some damn mics up and have at it.
     
  5. by

    by Guest

    yea dave that's almost what i'm doing now and it's alot easier. most musicians i've worked with are actually fine with the whole idea. i don't think it's anal at all.

    what i find more anal, and frankly very ironic (and i'm not complaining or being bitchy here), are musicians who value quality yet can't understand that their 'unique' sound as a band needs to be treated equally unique in the way it's captured, and because their music is so revolutionary and has never been done before the intire recording process needs to compliment their vast superiority towards the trends of global ecomical take-over, because the last band that was in the studio sucked alot and they didn't deserve such attention. Maybe you could think (or explain) it like that. I wouldn't do it if the band members are a bit smart though.

    ..that was in no way a flame or anything. just my bad humour... :p
     
  6. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    This was my thoughts about it at the time,By, and it was a mostly accepted thing with the bands who were looking for something more than a demo.Those who had a bit more on the plate as far as talent and drive were very receptive to it and it did allow us(as a studio) to produce recordings well above the throw it up and go level.This resulted in MORE work and a good reputation amoungst the type of acts we recorded.So, Catoogie, as a business decision, it kept us in equipment and brought more to the table.And as a decision involving the bands input into it, it gave them the responsibility to make choices at the BEGINNING of a session as to how much they really cared about their sound.This helped DURING the sessions as it put the talent and the facility on the same page.This is not to say that as an engineer and knowing the place and the gear, I couldnt just put em up and go...I could and did a lot, but the talent that wanted something more, found us to be willing partners in their quest.Which a lot of studios would do well to learn.
    Ridiculous , my ass....it saved more time than it cost in the long run...
     
  7. sosayu2

    sosayu2 Guest

    if i recall correctly, it took john mellencamp 1 week for drum sounds on the jack and diane album. also it has taken mutt lange a week just for guitar sounds drums took a lot longer. don't know if he still works that way but that is or was his style....
     

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