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Old(vintage) or New

Discussion in 'Vintage Analog Gear' started by Davedog, Nov 2, 2009.

  1. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Why would anyone , with todays plethora of high-tech high-end manufacturing techniques and quality contol done by autobots, want anything old and possibly a liability in their studio?

    Thats the question children. Step up and say what ya mean.
     
  2. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    a well made OLD ... point to point ... guitar amp or LA2 is well worth some luv and care by an experienced tech

    there is good OLD
    there is good NEW
    and
    then there is just plain BAD

    you still have to search out which is which
     
  3. jg49

    jg49 Well-Known Member

    My biggest problem is, I am the most "vintage" thing in my "studio." And the jury is still out on my intrinsic value. If things get better with age I must be approaching magnificent.
     
  4. iamfrobs

    iamfrobs Guest

    I just like the old stuff cause it has super professional rockin' tube sound. :lol:

    But honestly, I just respect the quality of gear more than new or old or super high tech.
     
  5. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    I remember when I was on the road with this band from Philly. The twin lead singers had an old world Italian father who used to lecture us that there was nothing "modern" that could sound as good as a Victrola!!!
    Even back then (1975), there were folks looking back at the audio gear from previous decades and lusting for days-gone-by. I guess that it's all relative, eh?
    When I really think about it, though, SOME of the mixing boards from the 70's and 80's had a better build quality and HEADROOM than those made now. And my old Yamaha P2201 power amp has more balls and stamina than anything Adcom puts out these days. On the other hand, gear these days tends to be quieter, with more extended low end and top end reproduction. Recording mediums are less maintenance-intensive, have fewer (if any) moving parts, don't generate the same levels of heat and therefore are less prone to breakdowns.
    What pisses me off is on the guitar market. Guitars made by many of the manufacturers-Gibson, Fender, Martin, to be specific- had really bad QC issues during the late 60's, through the 80's. Players HATED these instruments during this period, and the Japanese learned t capitalize on this fault. But these days, the same crappy guitars that we hated back then are bringing in BIG bucks and everyone under 30 thinks they're great!!! "Vintage"? I think not... :lol:
     
  6. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    I've been around electronics for a long, long time and have installed, purchased and sold 10's of thousands of dollars worth of audio and video equipment over my lifetime....been doing it since I was probably 9 or 10.
    I currently have some of the latest audio and video technology made on planet earth!....computers, HDTV's, amplifiers, microphones, keyboards, mixers, speakers, game consoles, DVR's.
    I have a record lathe from the 1930's, tube radio's from 40's, tape machines, effects boxes from the 60's and 70's and 80's. None of those "vintage" pieces have any value other than there intrinsic oddity of age and interest as antique's...
    There is nothing made years ago that is better than what is being designed and built today...the only value most vintage equipment has is in the ear of the beholder and this has always been the way things are....people continue to purchase tube amps because they like the "warm tones" they hear...that's a personal choice and I have no problem with it.....have at it if it turns your crank...yes it sounds cool but it's old technology....it's interesting ya, it's quirky, it's noisy, low headroom....I can go on and on...
    Every piece of significant electronics technology being made today is literally years ahead of any piece of electronics that was manufactured or built before it! Anyone who thinks differently is just fooling themselves....
    The quality of "autobot" manufacturing is far superior to any point to point wiring by hand (if point to point could ever even be possible with today's higher tolerance and quality SM components and multi-layered circuit boards)....I've gotten rid of older equipment because there has always been something newer and better built coming out....not in terms of "ear" but in terms of specifications....If you like old vintage stuff then fine....but don't be fooled into thinking it's better....it's not...it's just is what it is!
     
  7. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    I loooove this topic. I'm with Dave and Moonbaby all the way. You either have to be young or have done a lot of recreational medication back in the old days to have a romantic view of the gear back then.

    First, we have so much more precision technology now that it is much easier to produce better gear than was produced in the 60s and 70s. In addition, "old" doesn't improve electronic components - it makes them worse. (Are there exceptions to that rule? I can't think of any. I'm not talking about a week of "break in." I'm talking 20 years.) So good quality new is better than good quality old.

    Another big point. This stuff ain't rocket brain science surgery. We are talking about (pubic domain) circuits that are descended from the 1930 RCA tube catalog and are in every elementary college electronics text. There are no secrets here. Its not like the guy at the five star Italian restaurant knows some secret that the guy at Olive garden doesn't. It's just execution and quality control.

    And again - QC in the 60's and 70's sucked. Read . Fender: The Sound Heard Round The World The best part is the evaluation of Fender by consultants hired by CBS before they bought the company. It is just dead on. Tells CBS the things that a big, well funded corporation could bring to an out fit like Fender that had great products but was having trouble meeting increasing demand. Of course CBS ignored the advice, still bought Fender, ran it into the ground (while making some great products). Another generation of executives sold off the company at a paper loss after the profits had been milked.

    [N.B.] As a Phillies fan I must say that CBS did the same thing with the Yankees. We will see how good the Yankees product is tomorrow night.
     
  8. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    Watching the World Series in High Definition is something that has to be seen to believe!

    Which is exactly the type of advancement we experience everyday in our world today!

    I'm laughing just thinking about the 27" TV I watched the World Series on last year....that TV is sitting in my backroom collecting dust now!

    But then maybe the speakers and picture on that CRT would give me a warmer tone......Hehe

    New and original artistic content is a function of new and innovative use of new technology...

    Don't be afraid, engage these tools and make them work for you!!
     
  9. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    I too have been in electronics and equipment building for a very long time

    the high tech auto bot can make some good stuff ... IF
    it has been set up to do so
    but much of these systems are set to make more profit than quality

    digital circuits do suit the auto bots but many of the simple tube circuits and analog PCB do not suit auto-routers

    some modern gear can be modified and improved

    I did not say that modern high tech circuits are not better than stuff of the past
    IN FACT much of the past is worth leaving there

    Some of the past is worth keeping and in the hands of an experienced tech,
    can be made to live long in to the future.

    While people still use a Fender Stratocaster and a Champ or Princetone or similar
    then there will be many old units worth keeping
    Point to point offers an excellent platform for mods and asjustments as components get harder to get

    Mics and Micpres and some dynamics and EQ units
    and specialized hand built Monitoring as chosen by Mastering Engineers
    will continue to be sort after

    Digital will see the end to much of the old stuff and is why I have chosen to sell my large format console and tape deck
    .... I do still miss some of the tones I could get with the tape deck

    the future is always coming but don't throw out the gems of the past IF they still continue to serve well

    finding the old stuff that is worth the efforts ... and at a price in keeping with the results
    is the point
     
  10. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Very well put, Kev.
     
  11. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    "None of those "vintage" pieces have any value other than there intrinsic oddity of age and interest as antique's... "

    How's your Mother doing?
     
  12. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    My Mom passed away last year (Alzheimers) she was 86!
     
  13. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    Mine too...

    Kicking everything to the curb simply because it is old is the same mentality behind most people getting divorced :)

    That said, we would not enjoy the level of clarity in recording had we not been through what we should call, the Les Paul age.

    What we call it instead is, the digital age.

    It is as anonymous as the players that profess to be as great as the real great ones and as forgetful as the child is to the teaching hand of the Parent(s).
     
  14. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    Space:
    Like I said in my comments I have some "antique" equipment that I've kept but I really don't use it anymore....I have better equipment now....just replacing caps and belts...while fun and enjoyable doesn't make sense any more for day to day usage and so they become conversation pieces that people look at and find interesting.
    I think your analogy to family members (and in my case ex-wife) is interesting and somewhat humorous.....doesn't really apply to electronics ("stuff" ) in this topic....but maybe you have issues with people who get bored easily and then trade in their things for newer models...
    Some people like nostalgic things in their life and never let go of the past...others like myself embrace new things and the change it brings and seize the opportunity it inevitably brings.....
    I love watching the World Series right now on my digital age HDTV and don't know how I could ever go back to watching a tube TV set....just like I can't see recording sound on magnetic tape!
    I must admit I don't play guitar so I'm not involved with tube amps but I am well aware of the fervor associated with guitar players and the excitement surrounding tubular vacuums!
    I also have good friends who love there tube preamps and receivers and I would never attempt to try and talk them out of their insanity....
     
  15. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    "(and in my case ex-wife)"

    Dumb ass...your Mother is your ex-wife...your just spilling paint you bone head.
     
  16. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Aww come on...

    Its a viable question and subject.

    And DJ has his point and makes it well.

    You, on the other hand, should simply state your case rather than flog others for theirs.

    I know you have an opinion on this and simply stating that is your choice.....but being antisocial and shitty to others is BS.....don U thin??
     
  17. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    Did the man not say in one post his Mother and in another his ex-wife..?

    It isn't for me to keep up with that.
     
  18. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    Wow Space?
    I guess you do have issues...
    not sure why you have to attack me with dumb ass comments...or calling me a bonehead...
    I've never kicked any person in my life to the curb.... that's includes my mom and my ex-wife...I thought we were talking about electronics here?
    so I guess I don't know what your all pissed off about... doesn't really have anything to do with this topic....
    Maybe you should seek professional help and have them help you with making negative and twisted comments on forums like this...what's up with that
    Is this something you enjoy doing?
    Must be something??? I don't get what your deal is?!
     
  19. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    You brought in your ex-wife, not me.

    I used an analogy about old things that most people our age would understand...parents.

    You guys can push this whichever way you want.

    Fact is, I don't know how to fit your ex-wife into this conversation.

    I know how to do that with our Mothers(God that you believe in rest thier souls).

    I can only guess that as most times, I am ahead of the curve in these types of black and white topics.

    That said, I will remove myself from it. As these things tend to get more obtuse as time goes on, and time seems to be running in short order.
     
  20. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

    hey Space
    still looking for your "ahead of the curve" type comment from you on this actual topic?
    At least enlighten us with some words of wisdom on the old versus new electronics?
    Maybe we can leave our mom's out of it?!
    and just for the record "I'm sorry for your loss"
    and God bless them both!
     

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