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Opinions On My Intended Setup

Discussion in 'Recording' started by stealthy, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    to start off, i used to have a decent little set up, but i moved from ohio to florida and i needed money at the time so i sold my behringer mx9000 and mackie sdr 2496, along with a shure pg series drum mic kit.

    anyways, i plan on getting back into recording sometime later this year once the finances clear. heres what im thinking about going with

    - Alesis ADAT-HD24 Digital Recorder
    - Behringer MX9000 Mixer
    - (3) Shure Sm57's
    - Shure PG 6pc Drum mic kit


    heres what i already have left over from last time:

    - Ultragain Pro MIC2200
    - Virtualizer Pro DSP2024P Effects
    - Fostex 3070 Compressors/Limiters
    - DualFEX Pro EX2200 Enhancer/Exciter
    - Ultrapatch Pro PX2000 Patchbays(2)
    - MXL 990
    - Samson Resolv 80a Active Studio Monitors
    - Pro Co DB1 Direct Box

    just looking for some opinions/suggestions. of course im on a fairly low budget, and im not looking to spend over $3500 (not including what i already have). im thinking about getting some software, but i dont know much about going about that right now
     
  2. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Don't get the MX9000. In fact, don't get anything else from that manufacturer. The channel direct outs on the MX9000 are not pre-EQ, pre-fader, so your HD24 recordings would not be of the raw channel signals.

    You don't need a 24-channel mixer for what you have said you want to do. There are plenty of good 12/16-input mixers available that are better quality and more suited to your intended use. Consider also a digital mixer such as the Yamaha 01V96, which mates well with the HD24 and has greater flexibility for recording and mixdown than an analog mixer. Use the Resolv monitors for now, and maybe some of the outboard gear you list, but I think would rather use the EQ and effects in the 01V96.

    Save up for better monitors, additional microphones and, importantly, room treatment.
     
  3. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    thanks for the suggestions. the reason i wanted the mx9000 is that it has a meter bridge (i like to see levels in front of me), i can record 24 ch at the same time (probably never will, but if the recorder can, then what the heck?), and its in my price range. i still want to be able to record a full band at the same time, if need be. as i said im only looking to spend another $3500, and if i need to sell some of my current stuff in order to "up" my budget, then so be it. i just want something that is going to work well together and still give me plenty of possibilities. but $2200 is a bit steep for me, for the 01V96, which is why i was leaning towards an analog.

    im pretty set on the hd24 though. when you said "You don't need a 24-channel mixer for what you have said you want to do", i hope you werent referring to my other thread about just recording solo acoustic stuff, because that is definatly not the intended use for this stuff.

    basically, my budget is 3500 and keeping what i have. if i sell that stuff, my budget is closer to 4500-5000 range.
     
  4. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    I did see your other thread, but no, I took this one on its own.

    The practical reasons against the MX9000 are sound quality and equipment reliability, as well as the position of the take-off for the direct outs. The ethical reasons have been covered in other threads.

    The HD24 is fine. If you get an analog console, try to stretch for the HD24XR, as its converters are a big improvement on the HD24. If you go for a digital console, you can either use the converters in the console and go ADAT into an HD24, or run preamps into an HD24XR and monitor on the digital console via ADAT.

    As for metering, you get 32 channels of simultaneous metering in the 01V96. It will mix 32 mono channels from a possible selection of 42 inputs when expanded with ADAT-equipped preamps.

    Because of digital console reliability, they are a good bet second-hand.
     
  5. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    PLEASE do NOT settle for the MX9000 !!!! Like Boswell stated, they are very unreliable and sound wretched. They have no headroom, a major consideration that is essential for cleanly recording live dynamic material (like a band or drumkit). Their switches and pots (the rotary controls) are of the cheapest kind, they fail under the lightest of use. I provide live sound to churches (and other venues). They are always complaining about he Behr*^&r gear that craps out on them. Pretty meter bridges and lots of LEDs do not make up a good desk. Get an 01v96 and don't look back. Even if you have to save up for it, it's certainly worth it in the long run.
     
  6. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Echo: What Moon and Boswell said!

    Cheap build quality.
    The pre's are below average.
     
  7. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    ok thanks for the replies. what are some good analog mixers you would suggest? you guys have gotten me pretty turned off of the mx9000, however my budget seems to be rising as well. if i go with what you are suggesting, i might as well ditch half the stuff that i already have, correct? (if i go with a digital board and hd24)

    i think the hd24xr is just too much out of my price range, i would prefer to stick with the hd24 and a good board.

    if i were to go with the hd24 and the 01v96v2 board (or a comparable digital board), would i even need the outboard stuff i already have?
     
  8. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Well, you obviously have a computer.

    I love the HD 24XR. The better converters are worth the cost of admission. $1700.00 at various discount music stores. Then, you can purchase a couple of decent 1RU X 8 microphone preamps and Jack those directly into the HD 24xr. Then pull the disk drive out of the HD 24 and dump into an additional hard drive also connected to your computer. Screw the stupid crappy console unless your intention is to also utilize it for live PA.

    Tracking through API 312/3124's & Neve 3115's directly to HD 24xr
    Ms. Remy Ann David

    BTW
    I'll mix down through the Neve or, "re-amp" through it, if the tracks were recorded with mediocre microphone preamps like Beringer's.
     
  9. cfaalm

    cfaalm Active Member

    I am a big fan of the 01v96. With the 01v96 you can do without a lot of outboard gear. You have 4 FX units in there, compressor/expander and gate on every channel and a reliable unit altogether.

    You can download the manual at Yamaha's site and look into the possibilities. With the optional MY-16AT (2x ADAT i/o) you have 3 x ADAT i/o in total. Those can be connected to the HD24XR and external preamps.

    Live PA can also be done with the 01v96. It might take some time before you get used to how it works, but you'll find it to be quite intuitive.

    You can configure your own routings where any ADAT out is derived from: pre EQ, pre pan, submix, main L+R. You name it, you can configure it. On top of that the 01v96 is a nice controller for just about any DAW. Remote layers for Cubase Nuendo and ProTools are even pre-configured.

    As for the Bickinger. Routings like for the direct outs can be changed through internal switching, which they will even do for you if you order it that way. They have their stuff together on that field. Unfortunately like stated above, the console is not very reliable and doesn't sound so good. We have a few at school that are used by nearly all students and they wear out very fast: failing switches, failing channels, the list goes on. So forget the Bickinger. As a rule of thumb: Bickinger is OK as long as it is not in your signal chain.
     
  10. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    Alright. thanks for the wealth of knowledge.

    yes, i have a computer (which i plan to use Cubase or a similar program with). as for using the selected board for live use, probably not really, VERY rare if ever.

    so remy, you are saying just forget about a board entirely? to be honest ive never used a setup like this, and i am one to enjoy having everything "in front of me" so i can actually turn knobs and sliders, you know? im still keeping an open mind, im just saying.

    if i skip the board, what is a minimal computer setup? i just want to make sure my current computer is up to par for this kind of use.

    as cfaalm said, i can do without alot of outboard gear if i choose the 01v96, but what if i choose the computer. how is this going to effect my cost to performance ratio?

    thanks all for the help thus far! im fairly new to alot of this, ESPECIALLY if i go straight through the computer....so im learning a great amount from RO.
     
  11. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    anyone?
     
  12. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Minimal setup is a FireWire-equipped microphone pre-amp (e.g. Mackie 1200F or RME Fireface 800) and a computer with a FireWire port. If you have a desktop computer with a PCI bus, you can buy a FireWire PCI card cheaply. If you have a laptop that does not already have a FireWire port, a FireWire Cardbus card is the best solution. You need to have a separate hard disk drive dedicated to audio. In a desktop, just add a second drive. With a laptop, add an external FireWire drive.

    Add recording software to taste.

    These are the basics. You'll find a lot more info on FireWire interfacing by using the search engine on this board.
     
  13. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    wow so around 1500 for a a fire-wire equipped mic pre amp along with a proper port or bus for a pc. seems more costly than going with the 01v96. i think i may stick to having the board, since its a bit more affordable and its a setup im a little bit more familiar with.

    so, im thinking 01v96, hd24 and possibly cubase.

    which brings up another question of mine. with my prior setup (mx9000 into a mackie sdr2496), i did all of my final mixing and everything on the board. ive never used cubase (or anything computer related) to mix my stuff with. what is the advantage of using cubase and a pc to mix with instead of just the board, and which cubase would you recommend? (keeping in mind i havce no experience with this sort of setup). AND...what cables will i need to get the board, recorder, and software integrated together?

    thank you very much for all the help and information thus far!
     
  14. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    also, after much research, i see alot about adding a MY16AT to the 01v96. this increases my cost another $500 bringing the total to $2700 just for a darn mixer. why exactly do i need to add this?

    i either need to find an alternate, more cost efficient mixer or something because now this is going way beyond my intended budget.
     
  15. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    The MY16 cards add 16 channels of I/O.
    There are way more options, including the cool Y96 Waves card (of course, that's not I/O...

    What are you trying to accomplish?

    Does an 01V not offer enough channels 'out of the box' for your intended purpose?
    If not, look for something that does.

    Edit> Where in Florida are you? I know someone selling a Mackie 24x4 for REALLY cheap! (My old board, still in pristine condition. The owner of Rocket City is moving to LA and wants to sell it - one last thing he has to ship. Far better than a Be****ger...)
     
  16. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    in my previous setup i had a mx9000/sdr2496 and i liked the fact that i could simply do 24 channels simultaneously. i know most people do not recommend the mx9000, which is fine, but im not looking to spend $2700 on a mixer that i have no understanding of how it works/connects, not to mention the lack of channels. i just cant justify paying twice as much for a board and not being able to do the same stuff as before.

    just for my understanding, what CAN i do with a 01v96 out of the box...NO MY16AT
     
  17. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    just wondering about alternate boards, what about these 3?

    Mackie Onyx 24.4
    (Dead Link Removed)

    Allen & Heath PA28
    (Dead Link Removed)

    Yamaha MG32/14FX
    (Dead Link Removed)
     
  18. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    The base-level 01V96 has:
    12 mic/line inputs (XLR+TRS) plus 4 line-only inputs (TRS)
    8 analog outs (master stereo, stereo monitor and 4 assignable omni outs)
    1 ADAT lightpipe in (8 channels at 48KHz)
    1 ADAT lightpipe out (ditto)
    1 S/PDIF in and out
    32-channel mix capability plus 4 stereo channels
    8 mono auxes (40 channels input to each aux), assignable in pairs for stereo use
    8 additional buses
    4 effect processors at 48KHz, 2 at 96KHz.
    Individual EQ and dynamics processing per channel, bus and output
    Direct outs on all input channels, switchable pre/post fader, EQ

    So you get a lot for your money, but the 01V96 is designed to be expanded, and that's what most users do. The MY16-AT adds two more ADAT inputs and two more outputs, giving 24 channels of simultaneous ADAT in and out at 48KHz. This is then a good match to the Alesis 24-channel HD24 hard disk recorder.
     
  19. stealthy

    stealthy Guest

    thanks boswell.


    but still, what about these other options....
     
  20. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Any of those boards is a LOT better than the MX9000. Maybe the Mackie Onyx has the edge on the others for quality of pre-amps, but otherwise it would come down to the features of each board matched to what you actually need.
     

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