optimal cd burner speed for master CD?

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by random logic, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. random logic

    random logic Guest

    i have two external (firewire) plextor cd burners.i use toast jam for burning master audio cds at 2x speed. how can i test which speed is best for master cds. i dont have any audio analyzer or similar toll. tnx in advance,
     
  2. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Member

    The only way you can test it is to burn the same material in every speed the drive permits, and then listen to the different burnings on a good system.
    I would say that 1x is the best speed though!!
     
  3. OTRjkl

    OTRjkl Guest

    The new PlexPremium burners have built-in error checking. If you can get your hands on one of those.... (I recently got an external USB unit for about $150 USD. Absolutely LOVE it!)

    Otherwise, I suggest that you burn the same material at each of the available burn speeds - each to its own disc - and then load each one back into your DAW and see which provides the best null with the original file.
     
  4. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    These are good ideas but you should really have them analyzed to see what is going on. Some media burn better at higher speeds, some lower. I offer this to studios running the discs through a clover analyzer. I really don't make any money doing this because it takes forever. Mostly keeps my assistant busy. The plextor premiums drives can run a similar test but I think it leaves several things out. You can also contact some manufacturers and they might be willing to run a test for you, but it's usually only 1 CD.
     
  5. random logic

    random logic Guest

    tnx guys! it will take me some time , but i will compare cds written with different burn speeds to original file,.should i extract from audio cd or should i record it to daw through cd digital out for comparison? a question for you michael? what is clover analyzer, is it software or hardware device? which brand of cd burner do you use and what do you think about plextor premium cd burners?
     
  6. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Clover is a stand alone CD analyzer, at least the one I have, QA-101. Every master that goes out is analyzed as well as listened to. I've caught a few CD's that were bad. The plextor premium drives are really good. The most reliable drive i've had for awhile. Considerably lower error rates than other drives. If your using a PC it also comes with plextools that does some error checking, kind of like a poor mans stand alone analyzer. There are only 2 affordable stand alones that i know of, Stagetech and Clover. The clover runs about $5,000 and the stagetech about $4,000 i think. Before I got an analyzer, I just kept my fingers crossed that the disc wasn't going to fail at the plant. All it takes is one CD to fail at the plant on a record that has a hard deadline and you become more willing to fork over the bucks for an analyzer.
     
  7. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Member

    Wouldn't it be more secure to do an Exabyte 8mm DDP master?
     
  8. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Yes it would be more secure to send a DDP, but i can't listen to a DDP after i've created it, and that makes me nervous. I do know that some guys send out a DDP image on CDR, I would like to explore this option myself someday. But for now, I burn, analyze and listen.
     
  9. joe lambert

    joe lambert Distinguished Member

    Mike,

    What software are you using that does'nt let you play back the DDP?
     
  10. innerbooty

    innerbooty Guest

    Hi,
    Slightly off topic, I just bought a new Lacie d2 external Firewire DVD/CD burner, mainly for DVD backup at 4x. However, I also use it for burning my CD masters at 4x. It's basically an Apple Superdrive, Panasonic, in an external box. What, if anything, might I be losing, or doing wrong by using this burner for my CD masters? Would I gain anything by switching to a dedicated CD burner like the Plextor everyone keeps talking about?
    Thanks - Steve
     
  11. joe lambert

    joe lambert Distinguished Member

    If the software you are using supports the drive I see no problem. It's a good drive.
     
  12. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    The only Mac software that I know of that can play back DDP is sonic, but I got rid of that awhile ago. I'm looking at the new sadie system which can do that, but I've got a lot of money in my Mac and am reluctant to part with it to go back to pc. I'm waiting for some sign that sonic is going to stick around before I plot some more cash down. Otherwise i've been hunting for a stand alone software that can do all the DDP stuff I want. In the meantime my 8505xl sits.
     
  13. OTRjkl

    OTRjkl Guest

    DDP is foreign to me, but I know that Brad Blackwood at Euphonic Masters does DDP work with Samplitude 7. Apparently, Samp has a DDP "plug-in" that allows working with DDP. (You better ask Brad for the details...)
     
  14. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    There are a few PC programs that do DDP but not many mac programs. The only one besides Sonic is the digidesign masterlist CD (an older version). the last versions don't support DDP so it's hard to work with new burners too.
     
  15. NolanVenhola

    NolanVenhola Guest

    Michael, completely off topic, but why does your Mastering studio have high end mics or any mics at all... :d:
     
  16. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Because I used to be a recording engineer and collected mics over the years. I still love recording vocals now and then and I love these mics. I don't record in my mastering studio, I usually lug them to another studio and use them there. But mostly a lot of my engineer buds rent my mics for their dates. I definately don't use them like I should but I just can't part with them.
     
  17. Don Grossinger

    Don Grossinger Distinguished past mastering moderator Active Member

    Just getting back on topic (and I seem to remember covering this topic in the past), I think the best speed for transfer depends on the combination of drive & burner. Each combination is different. I have a couple of Seagate drives & Sony CDW-900E burners with a Sonic Solutions system.

    I myself wouldn't be quick to dump the Sonic as it has made great sounding, low error CDs for a long time while other flavors of the month have come & gone. I would almost consider getting a good used Sonic system (perhaps at a going out of business sale or an "upgrade" sale) before a lower priced new system. I know Sonic no longer supports my system, but it has been just fine for me to date (but now watch what happens.....).
     
  18. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Yeah Don, i wouldn't have said that. The last time I said that, I was using a powertool and thinking to myself," boy, i've had this longer than anything else and it still works great" 5 min later it erupted into flames. Yeah, i agree with Don on possibly finding an old sonic, the problem is support so that makes most feel uncomfortable. I would like to find myself a 24/96 sadie system for cheap, they still support it and from what i can tell it works great. It sucks that it's PC but you can't win them all. I was looking into the Sonic HD for awhile but they are pricey. The good thing though is that you can run protools in the same system. I would like someone to come out with a stand alone software that is really geared towards mastering. I know the usual suspects out there but none quite make it though.
     
  19. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott Active Member

    No one uses the HHB burners? As for burning speed, these all burn real time(1x).
    Of course, the media is important and I think they also sell the media.

    Just a thought.
     
  20. vagelis

    vagelis Guest

    Hm, the "problem" is that the Internal CD-burner of the G4 with the Toast burns at X4 or X8
     

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