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Outboard Verb Latency

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Ripeart, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. Ripeart

    Ripeart Active Member

    Not being satisfied with any of the Waves reverb offerings, and not looking forward to spending countless hours demo'ing verb plugs/reading reviews I was very happy to fall into the opportunity to purchase a mint Lexicon PCM 91 for $400. (It took a lot of whittling the seller to get to that price.)

    I was wondering how you folks use outboard effects when mixing. Currently I have the analog ins and outs connected to my 828.2 and via DP am sending a signal to it, then back and recording the verb on it's own track. As expected I do notice a bit of latency. I compared the original and verb signal waveform and the beat detection indicator and judged that the verb is about 4 ms late. I'm not sure if that's an accurate way to measure though, and I know that 4 ms is an almost insignificant amount of time. Thinking that, should I be worried about latency with this unit? I like to use a Linear Phase EQ often and that CPU muncher increases latency across the board more than most other plugs. Should I be on the lookout for latency issues using an outboard device? Is there a more efficient method of interconnection, such as the AES connector?

    Thank you for your thoughts =) and I am LOVING this verb unit.
  2. Ripeart

    Ripeart Active Member

    Really? No one in Pro Audio is using outboard gear when mixing?
  3. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I use a MixDream and Dangerous Master with their inserts and experience zero latency. Its another reason why I bought it. I've been debating getting an external reverb that I would most likely use as a final sheen for my final mix / master. I would probably put it last in line before the AD back to my DAW.

    What are you using for monitor control?
  4. Ripeart

    Ripeart Active Member

    My monitors are Dynaudios, pair of mixcubes, and my home stereo. They are connected to my Motu 828.2 via the analog for the speakers and spdif for the home stereo. When bouncing from speaker to speaker I simply use the output selector on the master fader in DP. in otherwords I am not using a dedicated device for monitors. Tryin' to keep it as simple as possible.

    This is pretty much my first OTB device that I'm using on a regular basis. I am using one aux track to send and one to return the signal. I'm wondering if that's the most optimum routing or is there another way? How are your external devices routed?
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    SPL MTC 2381

    (I edited my last post so much that I just re posted it again)

    I should mention this as well because I do think its made subtle differences.

    I use very good converters and an RME PCIe AES EBU interface with Mogami W3080 110 ohm for both my analog and digital cable. Every little bit helps when it comes down to the last few percent from this point on. This helps make things pretty snappy and extremely quiet.
    All my gear is power conditioned so everything is balanced and flowing.

    My monitor control system is the SPL MTC 2381 which I just love and highly recommend. I couldn't do what I do without it and wouldn't settle for less. I didn't know what I was missing until I started using a very good monitor controller. Its essential. What I hear out of my monitors is what I'm either mixing ITB or OTB with accuracy, especially when it comes to sending it all back for final master. It makes OTB a dream.

    When I left the analog domain around 1998 and jumped into Pro Tools, I was so distracted, overwhelmed with all the editing and marvel I forgot about, and foolishly dismissed essential things like the MTC 2381 for monitoring. It wasn't until a few years ago did I realize I needed this and a few other key things to step up my studio and actually make it all work like it should ( IMHO).

    Check that out. It will step your game up when it comes to OTB/ hybrid recording.
  6. Ripeart

    Ripeart Active Member

    I will definitely check that out, thank you.

    When it comes to bouncing the final version, I do have a complicated workflow just to make sure everything is as I hear it. I print just about everything just before bounce, mostly because I have trust issues. I have been burned many times before and I really want to believe that what I'm hearing is what's going to disk.

    Thanks again.
  7. Ripeart

    Ripeart Active Member

    Just wanted to post back here and mention that I found a plug in that helps out in this scenario call "Latency Fixer". It's a free download but your host must support plug-in delay compensation.

    Expert Sleepers - Latency Fixer
  8. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    I'm glad you found something to fix the problem, but what you experienced isn't really latency related to your computer. That unit does the wet/dry mix digitally, so even passing dry signal adds delay.

    But I don't see that as an issue. You won't be using it for dry signal, and reverbs usually have some pre-delay on them anyway. Don't over-think it, use your ears.
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