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Panning Issues

Discussion in 'Recording' started by atomjack, Oct 19, 2008.

  1. atomjack

    atomjack Guest

    I am new to using an analog mixing console, so anyone who might be able to help me I would really appreciate it.

    I have an old Tascam m2600 mk II mixing console used as basically a monitoring mixer with Pro Tools. I have all of the pan pots in the center position on the console. Everything is recording fine, but when I do my actual mixing on the pro tools software, it doesn't seem to truly pan to one side or the other. A hard pan (using PT) to the right or left still leaves equal volume in both sides (although it seems not as loud as if i left it center) and the pan pots on the console don't seem to be doing anything. However, if I bounce it down/burn and play the song in Itunes or on a cd player and not use the mixer for monitoring, it seems that all of my panning has worked correctly. I hope this is a newb question that is easily solved. I'm using a pro tools tdm and a 192 i/o.
     
  2. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    Seems that maybe your monitoring is mono-ising your signal.

    Headphones? Speakers? Anywhere in the chain that may be turning things to mono?
     
  3. atomjack

    atomjack Guest

    Thank you for the response. I have my Monitors going into the Control Room Outputs. I don't even have any rack gear hooked up besides the 192 going into the mixer's Tape In's and the Mixer's Direct Outputs going into the 192. I've been wondering if it has something to do with when the pans are set to send the signal to the group buses, so I'm hoping its just a simple button that I'm not sure what to press. Hopefully someone who uses an analog board might find this familiar.
     
  4. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    "Hopefully someone who uses an analog board might find this familiar."
    Tuesday nights, I love them.

    I see from what info I can find on the 2600 that the inputs are TRS. What are you using to plug the PC into the board?
    If possible, I would bypass the sub-groups and stick with the main mix only. If you're inputting 2xTRS's, pan them hard L/R.
     
  5. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    4K for an interface is what isn't familiar to me. I'd lose the board completely.
     
  6. AwedOne

    AwedOne Guest

    Do you know exactly what you're listening to?

    Is your stereo bus from your DAW going straight to your interface and then to your speakers, or back into your Tascam which is feeding your monitors from one of it's outs?

    The reason I ask is that I was having the same problem when I was trying to send 24 tracks back into my M-3500 and mix on the analog board. None of my panning assignments were present in the monitors, except for those that were done with the pan knobs on the Tascam. What I learned, was that I had to have 2 channel strips for every source that I wanted to be anywhere but dead center. Pan one left, the other right and then stereo panning would show up. It wourked best to output stems only to the analog console and have 2 channels for each stem.

    If that's not your case, you might look at your SEND panning in your DAW. In Cubase you can set it up that send panning follows channel panning. Even when I used to mix entirely ITB, this one would trip me up. I'd have something panned hard L and still hear it in the right monitor because the reverb send was panned C and sending part of the signal to the right bus.

    Hope this helps.
     
  7. mark_van_j

    mark_van_j Active Member

    This is where I believe the problem is. If you have all your pan pots centered the left and right output of the 192 are coming in centrally. Pan the left channel 'left' and right channel 'right' on the board.

    Also make sure your settings in PT under 'Hardware Setup' are patched correctly. You might have the master output patched differently there...
     
  8. atomjack

    atomjack Guest

    I worked on a Mackie 8 bus console with the same set up and I remember the pans on the console being center, but still letting me pan the tracks in pro tools. Also, the tracks actually do pan, but I can only tell when I bounce it down and listen to it somewhere else. Thank you for everyone's responses.
     
  9. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    Could've been a stereo strip on that console, and it's a mono strip on this.
     
  10. atomjack

    atomjack Guest

    The Pro Tools outputs are 1-2 so I have to pan Channel 1 left and 2 right on the console for it to work. Does that sound about right? Again, thanks for everyone's help.
     
  11. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    Sounds good to me. If panning left makes you hear things left, and vice versa, it should sound good to you too.
     
  12. JohnSpence

    JohnSpence Guest

    All the replies to your post are valid so let me add some other thoughts.
    Some analog boards (like the Soundcraft 2400 series I do a lot of work on) have a button on the input channels dedicated to activating the pan control. If it's left out then the signal appears in the centre of the monitors or mix.Maybe check this on your console.
    Bear in mind also that a mono signal, if sent down two channels with one panned left and the other panned right will still appear in the centre of the stereo image. You have to modify one side by either time or modulation to get any sense of the signal being being discretely in both speakers.
    I often create a pseudo stereo image from mono signals by sending the original track to a very short delay (maybe 12-18ms) and panning the original one way and the delayed version the other way.
    Particularly useful for guitar tracks and leaves plenty of centre space for vocals, solos etc.
     
  13. GeckoMusic

    GeckoMusic Guest

    Be careful of the phase issues that this introduces. When sitting in the "sweet spot" there will be a comb filter on the audio every 80Hz or so. (1/12ms = 83Hz, 1/18ms = 55Hz) Double tracking is almost always a better alternative to the delay and pan technique.
     
  14. JohnSpence

    JohnSpence Guest

    Certainly double tracking is generally a better option. However sometimes the original playing is'nt tight enough to double track accurately and there are times when I will settle for a synthesised DT rather than a performance which distracts the ear with subtle differences.
    I've never encountered any problem with the comb filter effect although I don't doubt it is there. Trust your ears when trying this.
     
  15. ikremenskiy

    ikremenskiy Guest

    similar problem

    Greetz,

    i'm having an issue as well..
    recently recorded a session and got the sessions, recorded into pro tools 6.9, but have 7.3 at home..
    the problem is when i opened some of the sessinos, the tracks didn't pan, some did others didn't.. also after working with a session in 7.3 it saves it as a different file with externsion .ptf instead of .pts as you probably know..
    so even if i opened up the original 6.9 pts file, the panning worked but after saving it, closing pro tools reopening ptf panning didn't work.. this goes for mono and stereo tracks.. any suggestions??!
    i'm using mbox 2, no other control surfaces doing everything on the comp..
    thanks
     
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