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PCM 41

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by Caine Dreiling, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. Caine Dreiling

    Caine Dreiling Active Member

    I just acquired one, and before this weekend have never used one. I have a few questions about this unit...

    1.. If I mix the the signal totally 'wet' it sounds like there is nothing past 5000 hz coming out. If it is mixed 'dry' the signal sonds fine. Does this sound right?

    2.. The Hi, and Lo buttons don't seem to do anything. Does engaging these buttons have an immediate effect on the sound?

    thanks,
    Caine
     
  2. djui5

    djui5 Guest

    The high and low buttons filter the feedback...

    Loosing all the high when at full mix isn't good...might want to have the unit checked out...

    Are you sure the low or high button wasen't pressed?
     
  3. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Yep, that sounds about right on long delay and settings and it can even be as high as 10kHz bandwidth on shorter delay settings. That is mostly because of the low bit rate and sampling rates the unit was designed with that was state of the art in it's day. That low-fi stock sound is now more popular and desired than ever and people go out of there way to over process a delay signal to try to get that same sound.
     
  4. anodized

    anodized Guest

    These things go for like 600$ on eBay.

    Complete f'ing rip off.

    And no, do not tell me there is anything intrinsically more low-fi about the 41 vs any other crusty delay box.
     
  5. kinetic

    kinetic Guest

    I had one of these when they first came out - I loved the sound of it and it's capabilities. I'm sure you should get >5kHz out of it - that would suggest a sampling fq of only 10kHz. You should get at least 14kHz out of the unit, otherwise something is wrong.
     
  6. Caine Dreiling

    Caine Dreiling Active Member

    thanks for the replies,
    i may be wrong on the 5000hz... it sounded pretty low though. i will have to play with the feedback in conjunction with the hi/ low buttons. it does have a nice quality to the sound.... very hi fi for lo fi :D.
     
  7. anodized

    anodized Guest

    Perfect example of stupidity in gear lust prices:

    Item name: Lexicon PCM42 PCM 42 Digital Delay, GOOD COND!!
    Price: $224.72
    Buy It Now: $950.00
    Bids: 4
    End date: Jun-23-04 18:25:22 PDT
    View item:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3731510836&ssPageName=ADME:B:
    SS:US:1



    950$.

    For a DELAY - that isn't even a Roland Space Echo (wouldn't pay 950 for that either).
     
  8. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    $950 for a PCM42 is a very good deal when you know the history for pricing on that unit that only a few years ago was fetching >$2000.

    The PCM42 has a unique sound/tone that is unlike most if not all digial delay units ever made due to the design and use of it's companding circuit

    As for Roland space echo's, I just recently sold my old RE-150 that I bought for $350 back in 1981 for $1275. Just 3-years ago I bought a mint Roland SRE-555 (the top of the line) space echo for $275. The true value of something is all about supply and demand.
     
  9. anodized

    anodized Guest

    I'm not talking about "supply and demand." I'm talking about REAL value.

    950$ for a crusty 80s delay box is a rip-off period. "Unique tone" doesn't cut it with me. Let's be pragmatic here. What's going in is not going to be sounding like 950$ coming out.

    RE-150 for 1275$? I seem to see those going for like 300$ max on eBay. How exactly did you manage 400% of (already inflated) prices?

    Sometimes the true value of something isn't about "true value" at all - it's about "perceived value." Gear whores demonstrate the reality of this daily.
     
  10. Caine Dreiling

    Caine Dreiling Active Member

    Wouldn't that be a gear 'pimp'? 8)
     
  11. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Supply and demand always dictate current value. It seems very clear that you have not heard a PCM42 or you would know how unique it is. Many clients request and demand that specific unit for use on thier records/projects. The only reason the value has dropped is due to the decrease in using outboard effects, the increase of DAW/plugs and the Lexicon support of the PCM42 modeled plug. Who are you to judge what other people value as to if something is worth $950 is sound? If you you knew what really happens in big time recording projects you'd know that many will pay whatever it takes to rent or buy the specific gear that will give them the sound and tone they are after including buying gear just to record that project and selling it after.

    As for my Roland RE-150, I didn't really want to sell it. One of my clients bought it because he knew exactly what he was getting, (a very good condition and maintained unit) who he was dealing with, and that he could return it if it didn't meet his needs. When you deal with used gear be it on ebay of anywhere else you take your chances. Ebay does not establish the all be all standard for fair and correct pricing. Ebay is only one source and guideline. People who deal in used gear as a business know this. Current standard value of a decent condition RE-150 on the west coast is about $850. Many people are willing to pay extra for peace of mind for things from someone they trust.
     
  12. djui5

    djui5 Guest


    Are you sierous?......have you ever used a PCM 42? It's one of the most sought after delay units on the planet......

    I love that thing...it sounds great....and it's far from crusty. Are you one of those guys who thinks because something is old that it sounds like crap?.....

    Let me guess...you use a Digitech S100 for all your effects............or better yet.....you use a Studio Projects C1 mic then run it through the Antares Microphone Modeler and tell people your getting them the sound of a ELAM251 through this really neat computer program you have......
     
  13. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    Ohhh, that's cold!!!! :D :D Brrrrrr
     
  14. anodized

    anodized Guest

    Duh. But if you notice, I was dictating the difference between "current" and "actual/reasonable." If you notice someone go out and drop 20k$ on an 88 Ford Taurus - you're probably going to WONDER where their head is at.

    And of course some patented AudioGaff assumptive snobbery to try and strengthen the counter-argument. Incorrect, I have heard of and used a PCM42.

    Agreed there!

    I'm not. If people want to pay 950$ for a delay box - go for it. However, I still have full right to question it just as much as they have full right to hand over a grand for something they think is the bee's knees.

    More patrnoizing snob-talk.

    Those descprenancies do not justify a 400% markup.

    *ahem* BS.

    I'm on the west coast, as well.

    400% extra, apparently.
     
  15. anodized

    anodized Guest

    Yes. Most sought after delay unit on the planet eh?
    Is that taken directly from Obnoxiously Valued Gear Monthly?

    Absolutely not. I'm simply saying it is not ONE THOUSAND dollars worth of *delay*.

    I don't use ANY of that crap. See, this is so typical around these parts. Someone steps up and says "Hey, this is nonsense" and people degenerate it into "Who's got the phattest rack of gear?"

    How about address the real issue of perceived inflated value driven by sensationalism and actual value of the unit compared to what's currently available.

    Do you honestly believe the delay has a bunch of dark magic voodoo ICs/transistors or tonality differences such that it's "one of the most sought after delay units on the planet" ?

    What always cracks me up is that typically people who consistently lust over archaic one-off gear are usually the one's not doing much in the grand scheme of things.
     
  16. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    Hey our capitalist society is centered on value being what the traffic will bear- and that's just the way it is. Intrinsic value is a rare beast around these parts- by the same token my 1992 Mac Classic that I paid $2000 way back when I got it is not worth beans now- wish I got a few re-150 instead!

    Naw, my 1992 Mac gave me a lotta years of serious midi sequencing- and If I ever decide to fire it up, with its 40 megabite hardrive and its 10 megabites of ram I could still sequence just about anything! Its not its fault it did not become a "classic" in spite of its name.
     
  17. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Mr. Anodized, you do indeed have the right to say and question anything you like. Your lack of understanding of the subject tells us all who you are and how little you really know about it. Keep reading, keep trying, keep your trembling chin up and one day you may learn to absorb the wisdom that you seek...
     
  18. anodized

    anodized Guest

    Get off it Gaff. You presume "lesser understanding" due to one saying "hey what the ^#$%?" about an obviously inflated price for a stereo delay.

    You're pretentious, patronizing, and narcissistic.

    Aren't you severely strapped for time with all of those multi-thousand dollar reverbs and compressors you've got to put into operation for the "clients?"
     
  19. djui5

    djui5 Guest

    I said one of...no THE most.....I know a lot of people who love that unit...including myself. It's one of the great outboard delay unit's in existence. Sorry if you disagree....(cue Bobby Browns "My Prerogative")

    I would love to pay $200 for it....but wouldn't complain about getting one for $800 either....anything over $1000 I wouldn't pay..

    It has nothing to do with "who's got the phattest rack of gear"......I stated that because of the rookie response you posted. Some people like beringher boards...and that's fine...to each his own....
    You came off as having an opinion that the unit was a piece of $*^t...so I responded..............

    I understand your point of view....like people selling ns-10's for $2000.......but I don't feel that applies in this case....

    No...that's absurd. I don't think like that.....
    What I do think is that the PCM 42 is one of the best delay units I've used...not only in ease of use but in sound quality..... I think the unit sounds great and works for a lot of applications. Not only that it sits well in a mix..which is the truest test of any piece of gear...but I'm sure you know that allready.

    Let's not get into this argument.......
     
  20. anodized

    anodized Guest

    djui5, sure. I'm all for not arguing.

    But would you agree that you can take any decent delay box worth it's salt and easily do the 42 sound (yes you may have to use some ingenuity)?

    One of the reasons we all buy various types of equipment is for the *possibilities* and options available to us. I'd rather create the sound on my own with the options I have available.

    Behringer is a perfect example though. Let's hypothetically say Behringer released a 16ch mixer that had the ability to make every single one of your mixes slammed loud without need for additional mastering. Let's also say current producers jumped all over it and the value rose to 2000$.

    Would you pay that? Hell no! Would you not question the sanity of people buying it?
     

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