Personal Monitoring Issue

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by JoeViv, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. JoeViv

    JoeViv Active Member

    Hi guys, I found this forum while trying to google a solution to my problem. Maybe the collective knowledge here might help!

    I have been using a personal monitoring rig for my in ear monitor for the past year (needed because my bands board doesnt have enough sends for the horn players...). The setup is like this: Trumpet --> Clip on wireless Beta 98 Shure PGX wireless --> ARTcessories splitter --> ARTcessories $30 preamp (boost the signal a bit) then to my MIPRO 808 in ear monitor. This has been OK for the time I have used it, but I have always had a less than optimal signal from the set up. I have always needed to turn the bodypack to 75% or greater during a gig to hear myself clearly. This became more evident as I have tried different triple driver in ears (UE triple fi and mylivewire trips). The sound is not clear, distorted, basically junk. I had been using SCL4's, and I didn't have this issue, so I began tinkering. I ended up playing a show this weekend with the mic --> preamp first -->then splitter. I had it working nicely at the house, it seemed to solve the junk signal in the trips (I have no idea why it was junk to begin with). The issue with this setup is that the send to the board is now influenced by the preamp where it was BEFORE the preamp in my previous set up. I had it set optimally for my ear signal, but it was much too hot for the board, so I had to change the setting rather dramatically (lower). This put me back in the 75% up on the body pack situation.

    Question is, what is the easiest way to do this? I am tinkering, trying things, wasting money, probably hurting my ears. Anyone ever done this successfully? I spoke to an expert at one of the online retailers who couldn't find a flaw with the system and was stumped bt the issue. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Typically in a pro audio situation there is a split at the stage prior to any preamps with one trunk (of all the mic's/instruments) going to FOH for the audience levels and one trunk going to a MON(itor) board. This is kind of what you described at first. Kind of.

    The ART S8-(2 or 3) splitter is not bad for the money and the ProSplit boxes have their uses as well. I think where you were going awry is the preamp leading to your IEM. Unfortuantely the $30 preamp may not be the way to go for you. It never has been for me. If the signal is cleaned up by taking your feed from the FOH then I think your cheap pre was the issue.
     
  3. JoeViv

    JoeViv Active Member

    Is there a version of that splitter that has less channels? I initially used the art combi/splitter only, and I went to a preamp because the signal from the split was very faint. Is this arts8 a superior splitting option from the combi/splitter? Better transformers or something that helps it perform better? Thanks for the help!
     
  4. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    Doesn't the PGX wireless receiver have XLR mic level and 1/4" line level outputs? Skip the splitter, send the XLR to the house and connect the 1/4" right to your IEM transmitter.
     
  5. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Boulder brings up a good point. Something to consider however is not all transmitters are created equal. There may not be sufficient iron in the PGX to run two levels concurrently. You won't know until you try it-and you should try it.

    If one goes the splitter route, then the process is the same regardless. I think the S3-2 is better than the ProSplit or the splitter combiner but that won't improve the signal strength. You will always need a preamplifier for both the monitor position (in your case just one channel) and the FOH position. This is where gain staging is important. The FOH can handle their own levels and apparently are. You have mismatched levels on your monitor end of things. Either you are pushing the cheap preamp too far on the output side or you are hitting it too hard on the input side. You have to figure out which it is. If your split is coming from the line level of the PGX you are likely slapping the preamp silly on the input side.
     
  6. JoeViv

    JoeViv Active Member

    Wow, sure enough, reading the specs, it does. I suppose I shall try this first! Thanks!

    I would imagine I am hitting the preamp hard, to your point. I try to make sure I am not peaking anything when I configure all of the levels. The preamp is the most prone to hitting peak when I get it to where I can hear it clearly on a job.

    Having said that, I really hope the 1/4 send works! I will try that as soon as I get home from work. Great feedback, great forum, thanks!
     
  7. JoeViv

    JoeViv Active Member

    Tried it - while the 1/4" send did work, the signal was too low in the IEM to be used at a loud gig. I ended going back through the preamp, and I played with it for a bit. I found a setting on each piece of equipment that is acceptable, and it eliminated the splitter, and took the preamp out of the system going to the board, so all that is good! The signal still isn't the greatest, but workable. Thanks for the advice there!

    Curious if there is still a better way to boost it. Must be a better preamp that doesn't cost a mint and performs better than this one does? Thoughts?
     
  8. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    What specifically is your ART preamp and what is the mixing board at the mix position?
     
  9. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    Well, you did what I was going to suggest if you didn't get enough level from the 1/4" output. I think a better preamp may help. What models of ART splitter and preamp are you using now?
     
  10. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Even for line level signals you would normally still run into either a preamp or monitor console for amplification prior to the IEM.
     
  11. JoeViv

    JoeViv Active Member

    ART tube MP studio. Using the 1/4" allowed me to eliminate the splitter. I tried researching some preamps...and wow...the amount of information out there is overwhelming. Any suggestion to pair with a beta 98 to get a nice clean signal to that IEMs?
     
  12. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    I'd recommend almost anything besides an ART Tube MP for getting a clean signal. Get something without a tube unless you plan to spend a bundle.
     
  13. JoeViv

    JoeViv Active Member

    New issue

    Since you guys solved my issue really quickly last time, i wanted to toss another at you :). My band finally sprung for the presonus studiolive 24, so now i have a send all my own for monitor mixing. The issue i am seeing is the board isnt getting enough signal from my pgx wireless with beta 98. The sound guy asks me to give him a little more, so i turn up the gain button on the pack...peaks it even at medium volume blowing the trumpet. So, i am stuck at middle setting. This issue is evident in my ears as well. When i turn the gain up to get enough trumpet sound on my aux mix, everything else needs to be at minimum volumes and the trumpt needs to be halfway or more up to hear it properly. I wonder if i am doing something incorrectly, or if there is a setting i am missing on the pack or receiver that would get it where it needs to be. Granted, i could use the +10 db setting and get it done, but the receiver is pinned at red when it is there. Thanks, guys
     
  14. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    Sounds like a gain structure error, like running mic level signal into a line input on the board. If things are connected properly there shouldn't be any trouble getting enough level at the board without clipping the wireless.
     
  15. JoeViv

    JoeViv Active Member

    I dunno, i have it running from the xlr out of my receiver to the xlr input for my channel on the board.


     

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