Plug-ins for mastering

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by Alécio Costa - Brazil, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    Hi friends!
    a) has anyone already tested Crane song Plugins?
    b) what about Waves Linear Phase Bundle? Is it a big leap from Q10 and L1 + ( which I hate)?
    c) What are the main differences between MC2000, TC MASTER X and C4?
    I use Q10, L1+, Master X, Power dither.
    d) What else is suitable for junior mastering within PT TDM world? GM, Sony stuff?
    Thanks
    :)
     
  2. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    well well well. this session of this forum has been quite empty lately....
     
  3. I will post this again because the facts and circumstances remain the same. Also, some thought on masteringplug-insbelow.
    Self quote, posted Jan 4th on the other mastering thread:
    Sigh. I have been nursing this forum along for almost a year. I have posted more than probably everyone else combined, started topics, revived topics, let threads veer wildly off topic, everything I could think of. Folks like Bill Roberts, E-cue, and DoubleHelix (where are you buddy?) have posted here and I have seen it go up and down. Frankly, I have always been expecting Chris to come along and shut it down due to poor response.
    I don't get paid for this, as Bill pointed out (look up above and note how alarmed people become when talk of paying for R.O. comes up... if I was getting paid for this I would spend time researching stuff, etc). I don't flame people and I promote a positive atmosphere here. I also useplug-insin the real world and think that a forum here could have some effect on the progress ofplug-ins If people post here manufacturers will probably start reading and reacting to it.
    I am not the guru ofplug-ins and have never pretended to be. I am a moderator. Moderators help the people in a community help each other. Start posting and help each other. Tell your friends. Become a moderator- there is room for someone else here.
    And that's what I have to say about it. Doc
    End quote.
    If somebody asks a question about a plug-in that is not available to the platforms I use I don't comment because it's just noise. I check in as often as I can/feel I need to.
    As regards masteringplug-insfor TDM, I would also suggest Maxim from Digidesign. I don't do Mastering, but I have found it useful for "mastering" projects I have done that don't have the budget for Mastering. I like it better than waves L1 (haven't had a chance with L2).
    I think there is a real need to be careful with using maximizer style programs like Maxim, L1, etc. It can suck the life out of a good recording. Dynamic range in a performance can be a very good thing! I think peoples' ears are starting to tire of the maximizer sound, not just pros but also the buying public. Doc.
     
  4. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Excellent points, all of them.

    No, Chris has not given up yet.

    Alecio, in sound forge 4.5h, 5.0 and 6.0, the graphic eq that allows you to put the frqency where you want it (you can have dosens of bands) is a great EQ for getting the track to jam. It is called the "envelope" EQ.

    As forplug-ins less is better. Every time you use one, you are degrading the signal, no matter what you do. Keep it organic, very very small steps many times is so much better than one huge step, creep up to where you want to be. once you go to far, you back up with undos. I actually make a separate file for each render so I can a/b/c/d them.

    ...it is in the wrist action.

    Doc. Problem withplug-insis this. They are expensive, all have a learning curve and many people are using the free stuff and the hacked/cracked stuff. If you really want to hear what a plug in can do, get the demo and then purchase it.

    I would say that 60% of the cost of my DAW is inplug-insand I use less than 5% of them. If I erased them, I would miss them though.

    Keep up the faith buddy, this forum will blossum. The newbees should be tearing this place apart.
     
  5. The bar definitely needs to be raised in regards toplug-ins
    I am going to reiterate my big picture opinions onplug-ins

    1. "Modelling" is for the birds. A sm58 knock-off will never sound like a Neumann 87. If it could, every studio would be stocked up with 58 knock-offs and "modelling" software. People say they have improved the sound of their recordings with modellers- I say they could have used other tools such as compressors, eq, exciters, and reverb to improve the sound of their recordings. I guarantee that Ears (both pro and consumer) will grow tired of "modelling" programs far faster than these other tools. A cheap solution is just that, a cheap solution, one that will soon sound cheap.
    2.plug-insshould not attempt to be digital versions of outboard gear. I have much more respect for Waves than Bomb Factory or UAD. Establishing a reputation based on the quality of your own products may take longer than slapping the name "1176" on it, but in the long run...
    This again relates to the idea of modelling. I have A/B'd an 1176 plug-in against the real thing and it wasn't the same. Even Bomb Factory will tell you that no two 1176s sound alike. The BF stuff sounds good, I say this openly, but I would love to see products that stand on their own two legs. Let's create the future, not repackage the past.
    And thanks Bill and Alecia for continuing to drop by theplug-insforum. Doc.
     
  6. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    Thanks Doc. Sorry for anything. If I had experinece like you and Bill certainly I would enjoy being a moderator.
    :)
     
  7. Pez

    Pez Active Member

    Here are a few of my personal experience withplug-ins

    1- Don't use a plugin unless you absolutely need to.

    2- Most plugins actually make things sound worse.

    3- There are some very good usable plugins such as the UAD-1 card, the waves L2, some of the waves mastering plugs.

    I personally like UAD's recreation of some of the old great vintage gear such as the Pultec and 1176. Although the originals may have all sounded different I think UAD's stuff is excellent sounding and one of the best purchases I have ever made. They have TDM versions for your protools rig. I would recommend those highly. It makes perfect sense to me to program a plugin to sound and operate like these time tested and familiar hardware boxes. Whether or not they are dead on copies is not as important to me as the fact that they sound very, very good. Variety is the spice of life. There are plenty of companies building plugs from the ground up already so I'm hoping UAD continues in this vintage direction. Besides, I'm an old fart.

    I have never used Powercore but I have heard (no personal experiece mind you) that their Oxford EQ and their reverb is outstanding. Of course it's always good to remember that there's nothing wrong with continuing to mix in your good hardware processors with your software ones. For some reason a lot of people forget that when they are using a DAW. I think there is a bright future for plugins. They are sounding better and better everyday.
     
  8. The line of thinking you might get from a manufacturer is that they can make more money "recreating" hardware- people like the familiar, the prestige factor, etc. It's just I shudder when I think of people running around saying that theplug-insare as good as the real things. I think that there is a credibility issue. I understand that people have put time and effort into their products and are proud of them, and perhaps the major differences have to due with actually passing a signal through electronics vs. passing a signal through an algorhythm. The only way I can see to fully on the up-and-up is to avoid recreations and make awesome products that stand on their own two legs. Doc.
     
  9. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Hey Doc...I have to agree with you here on the debate between *real* hardware and software emulations of real hardware...they are *not* the same! Now that does not mean that they are not good, but they are not the same! I use the UAD-1 card, and I love it, but I am not naive enough to think that for $600 I have an exact replica of an LA2, an 1176LN and a Pultec EQ! Hehe... Once again, I absolutely *love* my UAD-1, and I think the plugs are fantastic, just not the same as the hardware.
     
  10. Hi guys !
    I'm agree about a "real" outboards, but i have a UAD-1, and i think that it's a verry natural sound,and what's a price of UAD-1 and the "real"
    LA2A, 1176 , Pultec e.t.

    It's our web :http://www.graffittistudio.com
     
  11. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott Active Member

    I also have the uad-1 cards and they have many times helped shape the sound I was looking for. Having said that, the hardware counterparts definatly have more personality to them. No 2 sound the same. Which is why you would never try running 2 la-2a's on a stereo out as it would be tough matching them up. But you can with the uad-1's. I definately agree that replicating the hardware counterparts is kinda silly. It's just not the same thing(electronics vs. passing a signal through an algorhythm).


    :p:
     
  12. I'm actually on the verge of tears...

    group hug...

    "what they said"

    :c:
     
  13. falkon2

    falkon2 Well-Known Member

  14. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    Funny but a few times my junior mastering beat a major mastering labs charging 4x more, with fancy manleys, avalons. This just ensures that quality is beyond tools...
     
  15. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    I agree with the "less is better" mentality, and also agree that the Maximizing plugs can suck the life right out of a mix if not used carefully.

    So with regard to home mastering, how do we get the loud (over-compressed!) mixes that everybody seems to want without a Maximizing plug-in??? I struggle with this, and tend to just go ahead and use the L1, and do the best I can to still make it sound good.
     
  16. sserendipity

    sserendipity Member

    Worth a try: Try mixing your maximizing plugin with an uncompressed, or lightly compressed version of the same sound.

    You probably won't be able to do this in realtime - delay compensation isn't usually accurate enough, unfortunately.
     

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