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Preamp, Studio Projects C1, Neumann u87

Discussion in 'Preamps / Channel Strips' started by Blor007, May 28, 2005.

  1. Blor007

    Blor007 Guest

    Hi,

    First of all a big greetz to all !!! GREETZ !!!
    (well it's kinda big :p)

    Anyways I'm the new kid on the block and why not begin with a idiotic request :p:


    I'm wondering if I could hear the difference between a good and a bad pre-amp ( or between 2 different pre-amp's ).

    So does anyone have sound files where you can clearly hear the difference?


    Secondly:
    I bought a Studio Projects C1 and I find people who can create more warmth from a sm58 then this mic without any special pre-amps. I also know Neumann U87 is a legendary mic.

    So my question is:
    Does anyone have a soundfile of an U87 vs Studio Projects C1 or maybe SM58.


    I'm currently just plugging a Studio Projects C1 in this http://www.staudio.com/products/dsp2000.html but I'm finding a very sharp but NOT warm sound. I tried different rooms , tried surrounding it by blankets so it would sound dead, but still no mayor changes in warmth.
    Could a good pre-amp make the difference, or should I be looking for another microphone?
    I tried singing in it upside down, at the chest 4 meters from me 4cm from me ,...
    So I also doubt it's the positioning.

    So 3 questions:
    Pre amp vs Pre amp soundfiles anywhere?
    U87 vs Studio Projects C1 soundfiles anywhere?
    What could be the weak link in my chain?


    Thx alot in advance,
    I know it's much to ask from a newbie :p
     
  2. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    Kurt Foster has some pretty good gear comparisons on his Nowhere Radio site. Listen to the RNP comparisons.

    Also, there's The Listening Sessions, and excellent resource for listening to gear.
     
  3. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    The C1, like many Chinese mics, can be pretty bright. People continue to compare it to the U87 which is pretty much like comparing apples to Stroganoff.

    The C1 can do wonders on some sources but can sound horrible on others. This is so for almost any mic or piece of gear. The U87 is a much smoother sound with less hi freq boost but costs about 5 times as much.

    You might try a tube pre like a Sebatron or "The Brick" to warm things up a bit but I think you really are looking for something a bit warmer in the mic department. I recommend the KEL HM-1 mic, which sells for $99 shipping included. I think they are back ordered currently but I would still go ahead and order one or two before they "raise the parking rates".

    In my use of the HM-1, I was very surprised how similar to a U87 it sounded on one particular male vocal part I recorded... not exactly like the U87 but close enough I would have a hard time telling you which was which in a blind test. Kel offers a 21 day return no questions asked policy on the HM-1 so it's hard to get burned. If ya' don't like it, send it back!
     
  4. mikE@THECAVE

    mikE@THECAVE Guest

    hi kurt ---isn't it true that most people EQ the u-87 bumping up the highend???I heard this is done alot....The C1 is kinda setup that way already...Yea i think your right about running it thru some tubes can round it out nicely....dont you think Two mics should be compared without EQ.or maybe with EQ..cause with EQ you can really change a mic
    I'm not sure what my point is .... :evil:
     
  5. Blor007

    Blor007 Guest

    THX ALOT !!!

    This was exactly what I was looking for.

    Is it normal that I only hear sound differences and little quality differences?

    And another little question:What are your opinions on a Giraffe 9 Pre-amp?
    What would you say about sending a Studio Projects C1 through a Giraffe 9 ? (in general, I know it depends on style)
     
  6. mikE@THECAVE

    mikE@THECAVE Guest

    what is a Giraffe 9
     
  7. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    I have never heard a Giraffe 9. I would correct you on that spelling of the name but I don't want to make a link on Google to Jakobs company. While he's a very sharp guy, we don't have a very warm or fuzzy feeling about him because of the way he acted when he hung here with the now defunct DIY group. He and a few of his cohorts really screwed a good guy (Kev), basically stealing the forum out from under him when they created an insurrection. I don't do business with those kinds of folks and I don't recommend their products.

    I am not sure what you meant when you said "I only hear sound differences and little quality differences".....

    I don't, especially with vocals or acoustic guitars. The U87 is plenty bright. Just look at the frequency response plot that comes with each one. I actually find the mids to be just a bit anemic with the U87.... the solution I have found that works best for me, is to run the U87 through a Sebatron vmp pre. The way the U87 loads the vmp is a perfect complement. I think the Universe intended the U87 and the vmp for each other. The fist time I heard my U87 through the vmp, I said to myself, "Self, this U87 finally sounds like it looks!"
     
  8. mikE@THECAVE

    mikE@THECAVE Guest

    i see maybe it was the older model of the u-87 that they use to tweek.Sound like a great match with the sebamp....
     
  9. Blor007

    Blor007 Guest

     
  10. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Anythings possible .... hell monkeys might fly out of my but for that matter. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

    How is your Dad building one? I looked at the site and it said details for that pre are yet to be announced. I couldn't even learn what design it is a knock off of..
     
  11. RickShepherd

    RickShepherd Guest

    C1 samples with guitar

    In case you are interested, I recorded this sample for anyone interested to hear the C1 through an Avalon AD2022:

    Studio Projects C1

    Hope this helps a little.
     
  12. mikE@THECAVE

    mikE@THECAVE Guest

    wow sounds real nice thru that pre
    are you happy with that sound Rick?
     
  13. roguescout

    roguescout Guest

    Ummm... My dog vomiting into a 55 gallon drum would sound great through an Avalon... Regardless of mic!

    I guess this helps settle the "money well spent for a mic or preamp" debate!

    :p
     
  14. mikE@THECAVE

    mikE@THECAVE Guest

    yea a good pre can put that C1 over the top :lol:
     
  15. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye Active Member

    The analogy is great. My imagination provided some unsavory visuals to compliment it, but thanks for the laugh.
     
  16. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    keep your dog to yourself :D
     
  17. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    NO DOG DISS'N ALLOWED.............period.


    I used a fairly matched pair of U87's for years and the highs were just fine thank you very much. I did find a need to roll off the bottom when used as overheads. And roll off when used as the primary mic on several acoustic tracks....but boosting the highs???? That could be dangerous. There is a decided difference in the older models as compared to the newest. The best 87 I ever heard was one a friend brought over to the studio . His dad had brought it over from being stationed in Germany in the 60's. It operated on BATTERIES if needed as well as an external power supply like a 67. No english words anywhere on it or the manual. Thing sounded like God Shouting. You could definately mic the ants farting.
     
  18. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    My friend larry has 2 of those with the batteries. They do sound like God shouting. sensational mics.
     

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