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Pro Tools HD Native

Discussion in 'Pro Tools' started by audiokid, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I just received a news letter: I hardly follow Avid but I am going to buy Pro Tools 9 because I love their software.

    Avid is offering a nice trade-in amount for my Pro Tools Mix system. I'm wondering what Pro Tools HD Native is? Meaning Mac exclusive or?

    I'm assuming we still have to use their converter and interface for this HD "Native" system? I'd be cool buying into their interface if it would interface with other converters but I'm a long ways off of ever buying their converters again. The day they make a system where you do not have to use their converters will be a good one.
    What Could You Do with Pro Tools|HD Native?
  2. Mo Facta

    Mo Facta Active Member

    I went to our local Avid/Pro Tools 9 product launch and may be able to give you a bit of clarity.

    AFAIK, Pro Tools HD Native is basically HD without the TDM system. That's it. You still have to get their proprietary PCI card, which accommodates the Avid interfaces on the digi connector but all plugins and processing runs natively.

    Then you simply get PT9. This standard version of PT9 runs any interface, just like any other DAW, is a HELL of a lot cheaper, and is a full featured version of Pro Tools with the exception of a few other "HD only" features like HEAT saturation. This is a complete list of HD features NOT in Pro Tools 9 (Please note that this list compares HD to PT9 with the Complete Production Toolkit):

    HEAT (paid option)
    TDM support
    Input Monitoring
    Track punch/destructive punch
    SYNC HD support
    9-Pin Machine Control
    AFL/PFL solo
    That's it.

    So, my question is, is it really worth it to get PT9 HD Native when you can get almost the same features in the standard version?

    Cheers :)
  3. kcfroines

    kcfroines Active Member

    You don't HAVE to use their converters, there are several others that will work with an HD native system (as well as an HD TDM system) such as Apogee, Lynx, and SSL just to name a few. But even though those will work I would still recommend the new AVID HD I/0's or AVID Omni.

    I had a chance to see HD native running for myself a few weeks ago and it ran much smoother and was more responsive than any TDM system I've ever used, and I've used quite a few...
  4. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    PT9 is also limited in track count and simultaneous inputs. Native allows for up to 64 channels of simultaneous input depending on the interface you use. You can increase input count with an additional card and you can use any Avid approved interface. So, you are not bound to Avid A/D converters.

    That all being said, I still get the occasional blue screen with PT9.
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Ah, good to hear. I should rephrase this. I know I can use other converters with my TDM system but if I recall, I still had to buy the entire package.

    So this new system, you are not forced to buy their converters anymore, only their PCIe card? And this is definitely different than the boxed software , Pro Tools 9? Now there are two more Pro Tools systems to choose on the market this year yes?
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Hi Hueseph, just saw your post ( where have you been! :).

    Is this the same version you have but I am thinking there is a new HD Native version now?
  7. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    HD Native has all the features of HD with the exception of TDM. A lot of people like the new I/O boxes. Of course it's all a matter of taste. Unfortunately, I don't think the upgrade deal works with the card alone. I may be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. It would be nice to get just the card and use another front end like the SSL X Desk.
  8. Mo Facta

    Mo Facta Active Member

    I apologize. I forgot to add that you can't record more than 32 tracks simultaneously with PT9 standard. But to answer your question, Pro Tools HD Native is basically the entry level version of HD that is currently available. This means that you get all the features of HD without TDM support, but with the option of using any interface you want.

    However, my point is that unless you need more than 32 simultaneous inputs, are desperate for HEAT saturation, need all of the other trivial things that PT9 standard does not support (see above), then what is the actual benefit in buying up to HD Native? Why not get PT9 and your interface of choice, and be done with it? The only REALLY worthwhile feature on that list is input monitoring but for the most part, you can work around it.

    The HD Native core card is $3495. The core card plus the HD Omni is $5995. PT9 standard is $599. I'm pretty sure you could spend the extra cash on the killer converters of your choice.

    Seriously, I'm not sold.

    Cheers :)
  9. Mo Facta

    Mo Facta Active Member

    Just FYI, here's a link to the product comparison page at Avid:


    Cheers :)
  10. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Absolutely agree with this, and I've gotta figure they are going to give in and include input monitoring eventually. All of their competitors have it.
  11. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Well, I can't help but think we'll be waiting a long while for input monitoring. Look how long it took for ADC.
    At the AVID presentation they used latency as a selling point. 1.4 ms round trip. That's pretty good..........@192kHz. How many channels do you figure you could get on anaverage DAW at that samplerate?

    Another thing was VCA faders and destructive editing. At any rate. I really like PT9. Would I invest in Native? Maybe. I can think of other things to spend the money on.
  12. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    right on, thanks everyone. PT9 it is.

    Hueseph, you say you are getting a blue screen. Is it PT9 bugs or do you think you have some conflicts or need a beefier CP?
  13. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    The blue screens were due to version 9.02. I recently updated to 9.03 and everything's hunky dory again. The issue mind you, occurred only when creating a new session and changing the samplerate. After saving and restarting PT, it would blue screen. Everything seems fine now. This problem did not occur for me in 9.01.
  14. Mo Facta

    Mo Facta Active Member

    I totally agree.

    Actually, latency decreases in all DAW's as you increase the sample rate. I think you can achieve similar latency results with any DAW at 192kHz. However, I'd like to point out that the 192kHz thing is nothing but a marketing angle which, for intents and purposes, is impractical and unnecessary. Dan Lavry:

    I know it's a little off topic, but it relates to the 192kHz marketing ploy propagated by Avid and other companies.

    Me too. And what exactly is the point of destructive editing? I dunno, I'm a Steinberg guy so I don't get it. While Avid has tried to give us a full featured DAW, they have still skimped on certain things to keep their products from overlapping and continue to gatekeep their customers.

    Cheers :)
  15. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    Do you mean there's no input monitoring through the software at all?
  16. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    All I was saying is, most people don't have the drive space or cpu power to do 24 channels at 192k simultaneously. Or maybe they do. Most people won't. Of course it's a ploy. I'm not necessarily supporting Avid. Just regurgitating what they were trying to push as a selling point.
  17. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Nope. The feature just does not exist except in HD. I know it's odd. That is why latency is such a big issue in Pro Tools.
  18. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

    So users are left with the monitoring arrangement of the hardware they use? That would be fine with me as I do a mult from outboard preamps to an analog mixer to get zero latency input monitoring. I went through some trouble to circumvent the input monitoring in PT7 and PT8 that doesn't turn off.

    But what about users who are used to monitoring inputs through PT with the so-called "Low Latency Mode" on their 002R?
  19. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Still there on the Digi products - just not on the third party interfaces. So punchouts are a kludge, but other than that it's not so bad.

    I hear what you are saying about ADC hueseph, but I am thinking that Avid will have to adapt to the new environment. They have to compete with RME on interfaces and with Steinberg, Magix, and Sony on software - and these are separate competitions. A lot of people like a lot of things about their software better, but I don't think they will put up with major features being left out when they can switch software for a few hundred bucks.
  20. Mo Facta

    Mo Facta Active Member

    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were. I totally agree with what you're saying. I was just pointing out that you can achieve the same latency results in any other DAW, at 192kHz, with any converter, provided it can sample that fast.

    That being said, I have to admit, the fact that you can have virtually latency free monitoring WITH the addition of realtime TDM processing (reverb, compression, etc) IS a strong plus in favour of Pro Tools HD. That is probably the sole reason that I would look into getting it and the core of the input monitoring dilemma here.

    HOWEVER AGAIN, because of the advent of more and more powerful CPU chips, it's getting possible to run this processing on input natively. With that, combined with UAD cards and the like, and good converters, I believe it's possible to build a system that rivals any reasonable HD system for a lot less money and with your DAW of choice. You could always buy a copy of Pro Tools 9 and keep it for when you need it.

    But look, I'm not trying to talk down Pro Tools, Avid, it's users or anyone. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I just think the DAW I use is best and the rest can go to hell.

    That's all.

    Cheers :biggrin:

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