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Producer Engineer "Dreams"

Discussion in 'Studio Lounge' started by Giuseppi, May 30, 2004.

  1. Giuseppi

    Giuseppi Guest

    Hello folks,

    hi im new to the forums, Im 17 yeard old Still going to high school in california, I always wanted to be a producer ever since i was 14 years old. Right now im trying to find a "mentor" thats been in the Music Recording Industry for a while. I mainly need some advice on what i should do what school should i go to what should i do right after high school.

    Thanks -- Henry V.
  2. Edu Zappa

    Edu Zappa Guest

    is too soon to decide which direction you will go... and it's up to u???....well, I'm 25.... first I'd like to be a classical performer, play concertos etc.... I almost did, when suddenlly I was in a reggae band,.... w/ this band I signed w/ a great record label ( I never wanted it, or maybe thought about it).... while I was in the reggae band, in the begining, I didn't like reggae as I used to like classical.... but I learned everything about reggae, and today I love it.... while we were recording our second album (released by wea), I didn't imagine that I'd become a producer.... I didn't care about engineering etc... all I wanted was to play.... but today I realize that I wasn't born to perform, but to work in studio.... so.... you see how stuffs changes????..... so, I was looking for my dream, and life placed me in the right place.... today, I do sound design, I'm a producer and I compose... I choose what I wanna do, today I can choose, when I was 17 I couldn't..... so my advice???.... follow your dreams.... but they'll change..... try to be the best..... today there's only place for the greatest..... never think that something is too far from you.... even these things that people say that is impossible.... nothing is impossible.... study, study a lot..... producing, is not about getting tips, is not about learning at schools.... but, you must work 8 hours in the same song without getting bored, you must know what sound do you want and squeeze the EQs to get it, you must understand the diference between reason and emotion, and sometimes, in the middle of your production, stop and start it over again, you must got the balls to say that it sucks, u must work for 12 hours and keep energy for your own project.... u must understand, that you are going to be responsable for the record, that if you do it wrong, your name gonna go to hell, the artist will blame you, you'll have your name printed on the chart... so, you can't make mistake.... you must have an incredible ear, you must understand music, not everything depending what you're going to do, but you must understand song structures, tuning, ....the greatest producers are great musicians.... but there's prodeucers who are just good engineers....... but the best, know a little bit of music.... or a lot.... I'm not any master, I don't know pretty much about enginnering, somtimes is hard to work withou engineer, but I know when I need to stop, where I must appear, and when I have to say "OK, it's done".... the fake producers, usually don't know when and where to end.... you must have the whole picture of the album in your mind, before you start, you must know how it gonna end..... and conduct it perfectly to the en...
  3. Edu Zappa

    Edu Zappa Guest

    once, my father told me something, that after a while I'd realize how important it was....
    "Is better to say NO, and hurt someone's feeling, than being ^#$%ed for the rest of your life just because you didn't say no".... sometimes NO, is an extremely hard word to say to someone, but it can save your life.... remember it...
  4. Tonato17

    Tonato17 Active Member

    Hi! I am 21 years, from Bs. As, Argentina. I am a music student (at the conservatory), and i want to be a performer in a (near) future.
    I am too young to have experience and give you a productive advise, anyway i would like to expres my ideas about it :)
    I think that of course you should study in an university or college a carer aof producer engineer. Once a time i wanted to study in Boston a performance career. In Berklee College of Music. They too have a career about engineer and from what i know they bring a very good education.
    Anyway i think this is not the only thing you should study. My tought is that you should also have solid knowledge of music. Study armony, counterpoint, arranging, etc etc, and learn to play the piano so you could put your ideas into sounds and can play them...
    Well that's my opinion. I hope you could achieve your dreams ;)
    C ya!!!
  5. Edu Zappa

    Edu Zappa Guest

    the greates musicians and producers never been at school, Miles Davis don't even knew how to read music in the begining of his success, and I don't know if he learned.... well, the greatests went to school only for teaching, never as students.... so, going to school is a great waste of $$$ if you don't have talent..... I'd love to be a scientist, I'd like to do quantics etc, but my talent is for music, even though, I feel like I should try science.... so, my point is, when you'll be 21, or 22, you'll realize if you were born to create music or not, if you like it a lot, you might get it, but talent doesn't teach.... my advice???.... well, buy a computer and start screwing arround w/ audio editing softwares and plugins.... buy a lot of music, listen to every kind of music, do some music, play something, but you need to care always about esthetics, beauty etc.... always respecting music laws, which are easier tham composing, and I know producers that doesn't play almost nothing.... but they know a lot about structure, enginnering etc.....
  6. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    Keep working toward your music dream and don't get side tracked. Go to school and take music classes, play in a band, write songs, buy a computer and learn to record- have a one track mind- I repeat, don't get side tracked! At 17 it feels like you have forever but it goes fast, I know! And don't let any opportunities go by! they might never come your way again...
  7. pmolsonmus

    pmolsonmus Well-Known Member

    Hey Edu,

    FYI , Miles was studying classical trumpet in New York when he hooked up with Bird and Dizzy. He liked it better and dropped out of Julliard to play the clubs. The rest is history as he became IMHO the most influential pop musician of the 20th century.
    The days of the untrained serious artist are over, and we certainly have our fill of untrained, talentless, posers/wankers who are all over the charts.

    If you want to go into this stuff then there's a rule that I tell all my students - and there have been a lot with the same dreams at 17- I've been a teacher for 14 yrs.
    The rule is this:
    Don't go into it because you "love" it. Sorry, but everybody "loves" it and would love to make a living doing it. Love isn't enough - consider it a marriage - how many divorces are out there?
    Go into this field because deep down you have NO other option that defines you. To not do "it" would drive you insane.
    The trick is defining what "it" is for you. I used to think for me "it" was performance, then writing, then recording, then just practicing, then teaching, then reading about it. Now I just believe that I have to make every musical experience I do satisfying in some way. If I don't challenge myself I know that almost no one out there gives a damn - they don't hear or sense a difference. Because I do sense a difference, that's my responsibility; to give back to music what it gives me- and that's why its like a marriage.
    If you're not ready to give back - you're not ready to commit.

    If you like the way music makes you feel, ask yourself what are you doing to make music better? Why does music need you? What do you have that 40,000 other 17 yr olds don't have? Sorry to sound cynical, but if this post keeps you from pursuing this field, you wouldn't make it. Ask yourself honest questions, give honest answers and then like the tiger says "stick to it and don't get side tracked" and you have a shot to be among those who make their living making music.
    Its ok to be a weekend warrior, still study, still practice, still learn and "it" may become clearer to you as you get older. Some of the happiest people are those that earn a living as a professional and perform for fun. Music is a great outlet for them. Some of the most cynical people I know are performers who work ridiculous hours, extra shows on weekends and holidays and have no home life to speak of. What sounded exciting (travel, motels, new cities,venues,etc...) at 25 looks very different at 35 and even more so at 45. Don't make a 5 yr commitment and expect to be happy.


  8. Tonato17

    Tonato17 Active Member

    Hi! i am 21 years old, music student and i am passing from something similar than the first post....
    I study music and composition, here in the National Conservatory of Bs. As. But i feel that i am wasting my time. I am not studing what i really need to study, and as the most of the statal education in my country, the nivel is not very well, the teachers don't have willing to work, the classes are full from about 40 alumns and sometimes (or most of the time)i have to be standing for the 2 hours of the class being unable to write or even watch the blackboard.
    I have 2 years more to finish it and get the diploma, but i can't stop feeling i am wasting a very important time of my life. All the people says me that i have to finish it , so y could have that paper (diploma) to show and that way have a lot of oportunities , even for scolarships in other countries..The thing is that i don't know what to do, i am tryng to do it as quickly as i can so i can finish it and start to study what and how i want..i would love to continue studing there in eeuu, but i think i need to finish the university here first...
    what do you think? I've lost my bearings and don't know with one I could talk, cause nobody really understands......thanks for reading and for the future answers =)
  9. Edu Zappa

    Edu Zappa Guest

    Hey buddy.... sorry about that, I never studied Miles Davis biography, and what I said, was based on what another musician told me, and I thought it was thruth, now I see you're right, so, very, very, very sorry about that (you might understand it).... but what I mean about being at school, is for sure a matter of discussion ... a bad choice, can change your destiny, the experience will bring you knowledge, but, knowledge is in music itself, not at any college, it's in life, in your soul, in examples, I know, cuz I see a lot of diference between a fake, weak and passioned soul, from a talented soul that makes the diference, I know so many composers, that just graduated, and do truvial stuffs, stuffs like other million does... that's the diference??? what would you preffer if you were a student instead a teacher, to study w/ one of the greatest producer or get your diploma at the best school???how those great achieve succes, why some graduated students are no so good??? (there's a few which fits at any situation and absorve the most they can from any opoortunity, they are good students)........ like Einstein says "Imagination is more important tham knowledge".... and imagination you can't study or teach, it came from your base, producing, it's not something transcendental as music, it's just one link between listners and the artist, is something very, very easy to accomplish, after for example studying recording engeeniring, and or music, not studying, after accomplish almost everything... if you get the essence, you'll be good, where is the essence???... the essence is in life, in greatness of master pieces that will always teach us... it doesn't matter if you got a Berklee diploma or if you are able to get the perfection by the way you were born to do it, so... indentity, you wont find at school, it's in yourself, I never had the perfect teacher, what a school can do, is to improve you a little bit, , I learned a lot of stuff that you must study, thats the basic, but the main role begins after you find your indentity, so I can't teach no one, what I can do, and the best that every teacher should do is to give examples, the examples are the best way for learning and teaching, try to realize what is right, what is wrong, what is the worst, why it is good, or bad, thats all about hearing, so, there\s any hearing art school????... there's any imagination school???....... follow your dreams, but they must be pure, there's dreams based on richness, in a glorious end, but, the bigger amount of people, continue to be anonymous people, frustrated artists, and well succeeded artists, had pretty humble dreams so.... that, you wont see at school, you'll see in life, life is the greatest school... everything is written in life, you must be a diamond seeker..... the biggest diamond, doesn't costs one dime, because, it's under earth, and if you find it, he's yours, and you didn't pay nothing, knowledge is the same, you can get it almost for free, that's all about your will, you don't need paying the price on the market to get knowledge, this is absurd..... like Tonato said... he think he's wasting precious time, while, he could have only one good teacher instead diferent teachers and classes full of musicians, there's great people who make music for love, who teachs for love, they must be at some University, maybe not.... maybe they're seeking someone to teach.... there's good books, there's records for sale, there's studios for sale, very cheap.... so I like to do it by the right way, maybe it fits for me, maybe, this guy needs a school, maybe he's a natural born producer.... maybe.... but the right way for me, is trying.... tasting, doing my experimental stuffs, hearing and seeking for great sources of pure knowledge, and always expanding my imagination...
    PS sorry about that, the musician who told me that miles davis was auto-didact, is a trumpetist, who has foundamentals to say something that'd believe...
  10. Edu Zappa

    Edu Zappa Guest

    I should know that, I have sketches of Spain, and there's a picture where Miles is /w Gil Evans reading some charts.... I just didn't connect the parts.... so, I did a huge mistake.... and I'm very sorry... and I believe that reading is so important as hearing.....
  11. pmolsonmus

    pmolsonmus Well-Known Member

    I didn't point it out to attack you, rather just to make the point. I've read a number of your posts and tend to agree with much of what you say. You're passionate and are willing to state what you believe- if you continue that and live by what you say, you've got the makings of a person who can succeed in this business or any other.
    There is no one way to approach this stuff, but my belief (as an educator) is that the more you truly know the better off you are in any musical environment

    ps read the Miles bio and Paul McCartney's bio and.....
  12. Edu Zappa

    Edu Zappa Guest

    Hi Phill.... well, me neither, I don't wanna attack you out, I just think, that it for sure worth a discussion... and, I know, that the worst thing to do, is to drive someone to mistake... I know, cuz a lot of teachers "side-tracked" me, while I was geting interested in composition, they try to make me understand that sort of Jazz Composition skills, while I was interested in classical... I read a lot of your posts too, you have more experience tham I do.... so, I have to listen to what you say.... , I respect educators, I teach too, privetly, composition, counterpoint, music technology, piano, harmony...I just don't respect the main picture of music education, my grandfather is the founder of two Universities here in Sao Paulo, now he's dead and left it for my mother.... I was born in the middle of education, one of his Universities is an Art school, they can graduate in composition, and other kinds of arts, like acting etc.... I see so many graduated students changing courses because there's no job after gratuating, students that make wrong choices, students that just need diploma, and all mixed together at the same class, even w/ the talented ones,... I believe, that if someone wants to become a classical performer, I know that he/she needs to study a lot, and for sure, he/she needs one environment w/ other great performers, that is challenge, they need to be better than others, and keep a great respectable relationship and musicianship w/ their friends musicians, producing is diferent, it's a new art/science... when I was 18, I went to Los Angeles, to study, and I realize that LA, is not the better environment for really learning, there's a lot of distraction...I was young, drugs, parties.... well, I took it serious anyway, and I see that I could learn much more if I was in another environment, I had good teachers, but everything else, the really good teachers, taught me much more in a couple master classes, than I learned in the whole quarter, I learned more over this point: being Brazilian, seeing rich students spending money to become stars, that I had something else, that I was in the wrong place, that I could achieve whatever I wnated, that ego must be far from music, all of this stuffs, the records that I used to buy, the sheet music that I could buy, in Brazil is hard, for example to buy one specific album, even those which are very easy to find in US, the same as sheet music, so I took advantage of that, and that was what really held me, not the pop star environment of the school, not it's tradition, I did of my way.....
    but every year I see thousands of students begining to strugle to survive, or graduating just to take their diploma and leave it in their closet!... the greatest producer in Brazil, Tom Capone, never studied production.... he might have studied guitar, I'm his friend, I already worked w/ him... and he's pretty humble, pretty simple guy, long hair, looks a trash metal guitarrist, but he produced Gilberto Gil, Milton Nascimento, Sepultura, and the greatest artists in Brazil, once I heard Milton saying that working w/ Tom was great, that he's very good and that he wanna work wth Tom again, and by the way that Milton says, is so strong, cuz Milton deserves a lot of respect, there's one track which Milton is singing w/ Herbbie Hancock playing.... very, very well produced album.... I see that Tom, and many other producers, do it naturally, they do it because they have good taste, they have discipline, because he try almost everything, they're ecletic, they can produce samba, D'nB, pop, MPB, experimental, Heavy.... but, I know, that, the right words, might make someone achieve their greatness, great examples, not having idols, but mirrors, I think that no one is better than no one, so idols, sometimes, make you try to be like them, and you might here their echoes in your music, and your music wont be completely yours.... so, I respect you a lot.... and I think, that we should try to show, that producing, music, engineering is something else than we see at school, I think, that if you own the right will, if you have motivation, if you're isnpiring person, you might get it, so, Giuseppe is asking what he should do, I believe that he must study music, and he doesn't need to waste his time, he could try it right now, I mean, taking short-cuts in life.... like Terry Bozzio told me once, pretty interesting, what's the diference between american coffee and the italian coffee??... the american coffee is a big cup full of coffee that worths the same as the small cup of the italian coffee, so, today we see a lot of methods, a lot of empty books complicating what suposed to be simple, while there\s a few bars that resume pages and more pages of exercises... of course, it will be simple after you get experience, but it might look simple, but sounds truvial... there\s producers that have no creativity at all, and have a job, because they work fast, they do what works fine, nothing else, there's those which make great stuffs, w/ bad musicians... Lee Perry is auto-didact, he can make a broken board sounds like an SSL... he produced great stuffs, and he's a really good influence, he could be an Idol, but I hate idolatry, so I see him as one icon, like Bach, he's one Mark, so if you think that you might achieve his greatness, is a much better motivation, than the normal motivation which you see at schools "No, you can't do like Bach did, he's our Master, so lets only admire him, but you'll be able to create a 4 voices fuge, not achieving his greatness"....Bach, Lee Perry, Miles!! are the great examples which resumes the true knowledge...

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