1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

Question on monitors

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by bobt, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. bobt

    bobt Guest

    I'm running a Korg D3200 as my recording base. Im going to be running Sennheiser HD 280 pro can's as a basic setup for eq for guitar, vocals etc:
    I need a "cheap would be nice" pair of monitor speakers, to start the mixing and EQ. I have 2 sets of "home " stereo speakers, a set of Advents and a set of Polk SDA1's that I will switch back and forth with...which should give me a good Idea of what this is going to sound like on most peoples home stereo.

    I was looking at the Behringer Truth B2030A active monitors....mostly because of the price.....but the reviews seem to say it's a lot of bang for the buck.
    Any opinons on these?..good, bad, total crap????LOL
     
  2. bobt

    bobt Guest

    Sorry..let me change the Beheringer modal number to the B2031A.
     
  3. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    If given the choice between Polk, Advent or Behr**ger, the B word would be the last picked.

    Consider the NHT M-00. I just found that there's been a price drop on them to $399. They're without a doubt, the best sounding monitor on the planet for under $1000 and maybe better than some twice that price.

    Sure they don't do low bass, but neither to most other monitors and the ones in that price range that do low bass do it so poorly that you'd be better off without the low bass in the first place.

    http://www.listenup.com/lu/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=l&Product_Code=M-00&Category_Code=
     
  4. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    Also, I'd say that if your Sennheisers are to hand, you can use them to pickup the low bass if you really need to hear it.
     
  5. bobt

    bobt Guest

    Ok...I found a bunch more reviews on the B2031A..basically they don't last longer then a year, and get am radio thru them....ETC:
    So those are NOT what I want...LOL

    Please kept in mind I'm trying to keep the cost down on these as I'm going to be running other speakers as well, to end up with the final mix.

    I've read a bunch of good reviews on the KRK RP-8 Rokit..the price is $249 each on these. They seem like they would foot the bill, for price and good sound. Any opinons on these???????

    This is a 1 room studio about 12x12...It will have isolation pads and what not, but no seperate isolation booth. So everything is done out in the open. I intend to use the Sennheiser HD 280 phones to set the basic EQ, and the recording, for Vocal and Mic'ed guitar amps, etc:....since I can't really run monitors, they will just bleed into the mic's.
    The KRK's(if those are the ones I get)...would be the second line of general EQ, adding effects, doing basic tweeks....
    The final eq, and master would be done between all three sets of speakers..to get the best sound I can.

    I don't see the Advent nor the Polks as being a "Studio" monitor type, nor Flat. But will give me a good idea of what people would hear on there home stereo.
     
  6. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Then I would question which models of these you have as both Polk and Advent designed their speakers to be as flat as possible. I would dare say that I would far prefer to mix on either of these than some cheap piece of crap monitor.

    Additionally, no matter which monitor you have (whether it be a $5000 pair of PMCs or a $200 pair of KRKs), if the room is not appropriately treated, it won't matter anyway.

    Don't waste what little money that you have on monitors which will not offer you any improvement over what you have currently.

    Otherwise, consider bumping up the price a little and seriously consider the NHT Pros that I mentioned earlier.
     
  7. bobt

    bobt Guest

    Good point Cucco.....the Advents and Polk are not listed as "studio" type monitors.....there High end audiophile home speakers.
    the Polks are at least 3 1/2 feet tall and produce a hugh sound stage.
    Plus I have all the audiophile equipment to run them. An Onkyo M504 dual mono block amp.

    For some reason, i didn't think it was a good idea to just use these speakers to eq and mix.

    The Polks are realy over kill and probably not some thing that most people would have in there homes.
    The Advents are not small....but probably more as to the size of what most people would have and probably a little more flat then the Polks.
    But thats a guess.

    But I guess your right...putting up a set of KRK's against the Advent
    Is gong to be no contest.
    Plus what you what to mix to is what people listen too in there homes.
    and at least not sound too bad in there cars...LOL

    Thanks for the slap in the face...LOL
     
  8. bobt

    bobt Guest

    Also the room is going to be as "dead" as I can get it. Between foam, insulation..ETC.....not perfect , I'm sure...but should work.
     
  9. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Don't get too worked up about what clients are listening on. The reality is, clients listen on everything from crappy ear buds to cheap boom boxes to car stereos to $30K Wilson Audio speakers.

    Listen on what you're comfortable with and that allows you to hear what you're doing in the mix. I remember Advents quite fondly. I'm not sure which ones you have, but most of them were designed to be very accurate and almost studio-monitor-like in nature.

    Wasting a few hundred bucks on monitors is almost never a good idea, but it sounds like you're coming around to that idea anyway.

    The biggest advice I have for anyone is to not get caught up in what you think you should have or what others have told you that you need but embrace what you have and use it to its fullest potential.

    Cheers-
    Jeremy
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    BZZZZZZZT..... Sorry, Wrong answer.

    There is nothing further than the truth about a mix environment. Dead is exactly opposite and counter-productive to what the environment should be.

    OK... not to unload on ya' here, but I would LOVE for you to tell me what moron told you that your mix environment had to be "dead"?

    If you came to this conclusion on your own, you're not a moron, but again, PLEASE tell me how in the hell you came to this conclusion?

    I'm serious, I'd really like to find out what the heck is causing all this confusion between flat and open room response to tight and dead. Is it all the photo's of crudely thrown together mattress foam firetraps? Is it the lack of information on acoustics?

    Seriously, I'd love to hear your answer...
     
  11. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I wasn't going to try to tackle that one here.

    But since you brought it up...
     
  12. bobt

    bobt Guest

    OK MAD.....let me state again, that this is a 1 room..recording AND mixing studio. It is a 12x12 room and ALL equipment will be in it.
    It is also NOT in a basement, it's a standard back bedroom.

    The blanket statment of.."as dead as I can make it" altho a poor choice of words, without an explanation, did not mean I was making it into an isolation booth.

    It would be dead as opposed to an extremly 'LIVE" 4 wall plasterboard room, with guitar amp sound banging off all the walls.

    The room is going to need some acoustical treatment, how much ,I don't know at this point. Some strategically placed panels on the wall, maybe some movable isolation type panels, (floor standing)that i can move to suit the piece of gear I need to record (such as drums).

    No, I would NOT like to mix in a completely "dead" room, I'm sure it would come out sounding like crap.

    I hope that clears thing up a bit.
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    bobt,

    OK... s'all good. It's just that a LOT of folks somehow (and continuously) seem to be under the impression that things like one room studios and isolation booths are supposed to be "dead" and/or dull and lifeless places.

    Acoustically, it's best to try to create a sonic signature that's pleasing to record in. (and to mix in)

    Toward that goal, a room with two or more equal dimensions will have some nodal issues... You can tackle nodal issues with dispersion, but more importantly, you really need to treat the issue of low frequency (LF) buildup with bass trapping.

    One of the better (IMHO) methods of bass trapping is with super chunk corner traps. The reason I like the concept of corner traps is that they are very efficient usage of space.... the corners of a room are pretty much not useful real estate.
     
  14. bobt

    bobt Guest

    Mad, I do like the thought of corner traps, as you say..usless space.
    I also really like the idea of moveable standup panels.

    A 1/2 stack of Marshall's is really not hard to contain, you can of course move and angle it in any direction you like.
    A drumset on the other hand is a different animal. A much bigger foot print, mic stands all over and not so easily moved, do to restrants on size and giving the drummer the room he needs to move around and not feel constricted.
    I think some stand up movable panels would be a big plus for that.
    Of course the prices I've seen on those is pretty much out of hand for what your getting. Cost as much as a good drumset...LOL
     
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    One thing you could do is to put ladder truss, or photographic lighting truss on the ceiling and use "cheeseburgers" and clamps to get things down into the recording space.

    That would definitely make getting gobo's in/round the gear a LOT easier.
     
  16. bobt

    bobt Guest

    By the way Cucco, I believe the Advents that I have are the one's you are thinking about. I think the originals came out in the early 70's to compete with the JBL monitor type speakers. They were called bookshelf speakers at the time...altho I don't know what bookshelf you could really put these on....LOL
    They reissued these in the late 80's which is when I picked up this pair. I don't think you can buy these anymore.
    It's a 2 way with i think a 10 and a dome tweeter. There is 1 switch in the back, for normal, or extended.
    I'm not an Audio engineer nor studio pro, nor do I profess to be one, I'm really a musicain, who knows sound and what I like.
    I Beleive you are right about these speakers and when put in the normal mode are very flat, and if I recall may have been used in some studio's as monitors.

    The reason I'm building this studio, is my keyboard player, kind of went off the deep end. He, along with alot of other keyboardplayers, im sure...think they can reproduce every sound, bass, drums whatever to sound like the real thing...except good guitar, which he sends to me.

    Ok , yes after years of dealing with bass players and drummers that can't keep the beat strait....yes, you can get feed up.

    But bottom line...even his 3K keyboard can't produce a human sounding drum line. In some cases it's passable..but when he starts looping stuff and gets carried away......it sounds like what it is. Programmed drums and stuff no human could play.
    I used to play drums for many years before I started playing guitar. I can pretty much tell right away if it's programmed drums.

    So I basically decided to do my own stuff, with real drums...LOL

    To be honest..this is going to be a real pain in the butt...as i need my wife or somebodey to sit and bang on each drum...so I can set the eq.
    It's like in the studio...takes about 2 min to set up my guitar....OK your going to deal with the drummer now...OK I'll go out and have a couple of beers.....call me when your done....LMAO

    But on a more serious note....I intened to do this on a "Reasonable" budget.
    A set(2) of overhead mic's for a grand is out of the question. I think people tend to get carried away with equipment.
    The tried and true SM57 has been the staple for recording for years.

    And I think still the best snare mic there is.
    I dislike the "beta" stuff for anything...vocal, or what ever. They come across as too bright, and brittle to me.....I just don't like them.

    In fact I would probably use the 57 as the all around drum mic...overheads and all, except of course for the bassdrum.

    This may or may not work..but I haven't started researching this yet.
    Which I tend to do with everything...working dollors VS performace.
     
  17. bobt

    bobt Guest

    Mad...I don't know if your trying to be funny, or just Sarcastic.

    What lighting crap (Gobo's) has to do with standup isolation panels ...I have no clue.

    And if you didn't know ..stand up(and moveable) isolation panels have been used for years, in pro recording studio's.......and used on drums, were there was not an isolation booth for the drummer.

    If you were not trying to be sarcastic...well...sorry, I don't get it.
     
  18. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    bobt -

    I think MadTiger was referring to using the lighting rails as a means to run your cables up high and avoid having to use mic stands which makes using Gobos far easier.

    Basically it's a cable-tray like grid across your ceiling which you would run cables on and drop the mics down from there versus using the mic stands.

    Re: the Advents -
    I was selling hi-fi back in the early 90s and the Advents were one of the brands we carried. They were damn fine. Paper cones all around which won't hold up over 30 or more years but has a very smooth, tube-head kind of sound. If I remember right, they were insanely sensitive too.

    They couldn't put out the absolute lowest frequencies, but the stuff they did put out was smooth as budda'

    Re: the drums -
    I would strongly encourage you to do some searches on this forum regarding drum recording. You have the basic concept in that you don't want to go overboard (which is a problem that plagues the younger generation). There's a lot to know about drum recording and ironically, the more a person knows about recording in general, the more likely they are to overkill the drums until they get to that magic point in life (as in all other facets of life as well) when they start to figure out that simple is better.

    Anyway -
    Enjoy the stuff you have and keep it simple.
     
  19. bobt

    bobt Guest

    Thanks, Cucco.....if Mad was talking about that....fine no problem....but still far from the cost of a few mic stands...LOL

    I'm on this site to "refresh" my memory..as to recording stuff.

    I have been playing music since 1969....and been in a number of recording studio's....
    But as with most musicains......I was pretty much drunk at the time...LOL...not funny...but true.

    Nice mixing rooms, had couches....ashtrays and refrigerators....and what you smoked was up to you...LOL

    I don't rememeber what mic's were used for mic'ing drums....nor did i care at that time.....I was the guitar player....could not care less...LOL

    I remember some general stuff.......but i will have to research the drum mic thing.
     
  20. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    It'd be a lot cheaper than you think. I could rig up my ceiling with that for maybe $80. That's the cost of 3 mic stands.
     

Share This Page