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Quirks/Tips for studioive 16.0.2?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by kmetal, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    hey everyone, i was called up to engineer a live gig this Saturday. I haven't worked w/ the band yet, and this gig will determine if i do more live work for them or not.
    They are supplying the P.A (jbl active mains/subs) it's a 4pc band, w/ 3 vocal mics.

    i'm pretty comfortable in the live realm, but the presonus digital mixer is new to me, and hence a curveball, source of concern. i'm comfortable w/ makie, allen&heath, and i use a mackie D8B, in the studio, i'm ok w/ "fat channels", and banking, as well as analog routing.

    My discomfort is using a mixer i have not touched. i get to go to their practice (today) and get cozy, but, i wonder what some experienced users can say about any quirks, or workflow methods that have served them well.

    the band has stated they don't want anything elaborate, just a basic P.A, w/ 2 monitors (will see if chained, or individual) and i expect almost no efx, given it's a bar/cover band type gig. I'm gonna read the manual now, but i would appreciate any, sort of advice, or preferences, so i can be ready for show time. This could be a steady gig for me if i don't fail.

    they haven't referenced the studio:live software, so i am unsure as to weather or not they are intending on recording, but my main focus is to keep things smooth for the audience, just using the studio live, as a live mixer.

    As an assumption, i'm think auxs 1/2 would feed wedges.

    Anything i should know?

    thnx. nervous kyle
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    Wow Kyle, I'm really surprised to hear you ask this? I think you're one of the best smartest guys here. You know what to do. It's just another console mixer. They're all pretty much the same. And with a bag full of 57 & 58's, you can't go wrong. I know there is a small sense of panic sitting down behind any new mixer/console. But you sir, are already equipped with some of the best knowledge and technique. So ya knock it have any problems. I know you want that gig and I'm fairly certain, you'll get it. You're too good not to. I mean every time I read your posts, Kyle, I know that you know what you're doing. So you just make sure you don't trim the microphones up too high in gain. AUX 1 & 2 may have to be selected as pre-fader send? Simply because as a digital mixer, like any digital mixer, much of the internal signal flow is routable to wherever you want it to go. Obviously they'll be some menus you'll have to find to step through but you know how to do that already. I mean I sat down behind a Sony... what the hell was that baby Oxford called again? Well, either way, I'd never touched that console before. The guy who was showing it to me had one of his own and this one that was installed in the studio I was at. He played me some of his recordings through the Meyer HD-1's and they were very nice sounding monaural recordings.??? (Foot tapping) monaural? What? He told me it was in stereo, this Master degreed guy from Berkeley who had been using the console for two years. So I stick on some of my stuff and it comes out in monaural. I look at the console for a few seconds, prussic couple of buttons and voilĂ , BIG STEREO. And this dumb MF, for two years never realized this, a guy with a Masters from Berkeley. That all the API 3124's and manly equipment also in this United States Postal Service recording studio. Your tax dollars at work. Thankfully, he doesn't work there anymore. So it's just another console Kyle. You're going to take to it like a duck takes to water and you shouldn't be timid about it. You're an accomplished engineer. You know what's right and what sounds good. So you really don't need to have any trepidations about doing this job on an unfamiliar mixer.

    You're one of my favorite.
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  3. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    thnx alot. went by th practice used the mixer, it's interesting via wi-fi. the touch response isn't as immediate as a knob, but i''m gonna hafta deal. i just automatically boost the high end on vocals, and th 12k is reasonable on the female vocalist w/ a 58. it depends on the room. i got at least booked once in dec/
    as far as eq, the mixer gets, an "ok" in the highs, not harsh, just not sweet!?

    thnx for encouraging words, i'm not gonna quit any time soon.

    best wishes-kyle

    mono is very helpful balance-wise. i love the mono. stereo explodes, mono, translates it.
  4. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Well-Known Member

    See? You can already hear it and see it in your head. So you're there man! You're already using it without being behind it. I just don't like the idea of the lag trying to operate it from WiFi? Another children's toy. I mean why couldn't they just put some knobs and dials on the mixer and also include a wi-fi adapter? I mean I do want any kind of digital mixer that relies on a handheld computer that will be obsolete next year. It's guaranteed obsolescence. Worse than Detroit! Hasn't anybody learn their lessons yet? Must everything be manufactured as a disposable piece of equipment? I mean we certainly wouldn't want to make anything that lasts anymore otherwise the companies that all make trash cans would go out of business and we can't have that. That's why God created China. God knew people would have to throw things out. And China makes it so easy to do LOL.

    Oh wow! This just in! So I'm watching a movie called Cuba starring Sean Connery and a few others. There is a scene where they're at an airport and just as I looked up, somebody is standing next to an Ampex 350/351 transport box, identical to mine! OMG! What a fluke. I mean this box is unmistakable complete with a round hole in the bottom for the fan. LMAO! Wow the things you see on TV at 4:55 AM. LOL.

    WKRP is in Cincinnati. Cleveland also I think? Akron?
    Mx. Remy Ann David
  5. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Hey Kyle -

    I just got one of these puppies for live use. Nice portable mixer with a small footprint. I have not used it playing out yet, so I don't have any real tips for you. One of the cool features is the ability to mix via Wifi. Which is what you seem to be doing. I'd advise you to have a plan B to mix with hardware in case there are network problems.

    One of the most important limitations of this units is that there is no GEQ on the aux channel. (There is one on the mains.) You are stuck with a four-band fat channel to fight feedback in the monitors unless you bring a piece of outboard gear.

    Good luck.
  6. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    With my (fairly decent) JBL/Crest/Crown live system, I found the highs to be on par with my Soundcrafts or Yamahas, and would probably prefer it to my Mackie. So I'm wondering if the sweetness might be deficient in their horns rather than the mixer.

    I am not crazy about the "stepped" nature of the PreSonus frequency select/display. For instance, in reality are you jumping from 960Hz to 1.2kHz in the Hi-Mid, or is there a full range of freqs. to chose from, which the LED ladder just can't illustrate. I believe the frequency controls are finer than the display does justice, but I will have to confirm this next time I'm using a mixer/computer set-up. Using the iPad however, you can select just about any frequency to one decimal place if you're deft enough with a tablet (which I am still getting the hang of). Sometimes I wish I could enter the numerical value, but the iPad won't do that, maybe the laptop would.

    The EQs and AUXs do get a lot more versatile as you step up to the 16.4.2 and 24.4.2

    The 16.4.2 has graphics on the Mains and each of the 6 Aux, plus a 4-band EQ baked into the Fat-Channel (available on every input and output).

    The 24.4.2 has 8 assignable graphics which you can put on the Mains, Subs, or any of the 10 Aux Outs. But with the upgrade to a 4-band fully parametric (including a Q adjustment) in the 24.4.2's Fat-Channel, I've never had an EQ situation that couldn't be solved with the parametric. The graphic EQs are MUCH more accessible via a laptop or the iPad than they are on the physical mixer. (not quite enough knobs to do it without scrolling - which can get confusing).

    Also, recently PreSonus added more graphics to one of the 16s through a firmware update, so check for updates once in a while you might get a pleasant surprise.

    *Make sure you back-up any scenes stored on the mixer to a computer before initiating a firmware update - or you may lose them.
  7. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    I just worked with mine tonight. Like the iPad, it looks like frequency and gain adjust continuously on the computer interface. It didn't seem that you could type in a value for the frequency or gain - had to manipulate it with the mouse. It is kind of unfortunate that the computer interface is so nice. The big advantage of 16.0.2 is the small footprint. You almost double that with a laptop.

    It occurs to me that we are not too far from a generation of live sound people who think of faders and knobs as a thing of the past. How long will it be before the sound monkey is wandering around the room with an iPad and doesn't touch the board all night. How long after that will they do away with the board. It has happened in recording. It will happen in live sound.
  8. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    Don't think of it as doubling the footprint Bob. Think of it as eliminating racks and racks of outboard gates, compressors, and EQs, and a 100ft. snake.

    First part of your question, we're already there. This sound monkey was doing that earlier today as a matter of fact - and I'm far from the first.

    Part two of your question: I installed a BSS London Soundweb system in a Catholic church 5-6 years ago that was 16 channels (this one configured as 12 ins & 4 outs). It was a single rack space with nothing but Euroblock connectors on the back and a short stack of 16 LED meters on the front - completely controlled via laptop through a Cat5 cable. Tweaking it is almost exactly like mixing in a DAW, complete with dropping DSP and routing in any signal chain. Then I unplug the computer and go home and the can't screw it up if they try. The only controls I have left them is a programmable volume control set to control just 2 of the outputs (which I set to range from 65% to 100%, rather than 0% to 100%). Obviously, these limits I've imposed on them only work in a setting with very few variables as far as inputs.

    The BSS is Completely scalable up to 32x32, at the time Diana Krall was touring with a similar system in lieu of a typical gigantic monitor console. (surprised this article still exists in the archives).

    I suppose there's no reason you couldn't use a rackmount recording interface as a live mixer if you had zero-latency monitoring.
  9. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    well i guess the mixer was a 16.4.2 incarnation. not a far stretch from a typical mackie, or a ususal digital mixer. pretty similar function-wise. i like no pages/layers in a live setting. i do miss the immediacy of knobs/faders type when it comes to feed back. 'paging' takes a bit more time, but it's cool that the mixer has a "master, or house" graphic eq. even cool, there is an analyzer of sort.

    FWIW got to mess w. board, and re-assured band that they'll sound ok, on their board.
  10. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    cool, i'm gonna check about the updates. as far as the highs, go it very well could have been the monitors and the smallish practice room. mackie thumps are by no means in the upper echelon. the speakers for the shows are jbl Prx 625's (dual 15's) and 4 matching 18" subs. So i will have a better means of forming an opinion, with better speakers, in a much larger room.

    I really wish they made a wifi remote control w/ knobs and faders, or separated the analog section for the mixer, so maybe the input trims, and in/out distribution could be left conveineintly near the stage (eliminating a snake). but allowing people used to/or more comfortable w/ physical knobs and faders, at the optimal mix position.

    Since most bars gigs, the sound shlep, is usually an after thought, is is tucked away to one side of the stage, and absurdly close to the speaker, or even behind it, requiring frequent trips to a proper mix spot. So in these cases i welcome the idea of tablet control, because i can make the moves, while in the right spot, rather than estimating, going back to console, back to spot, ect, ect.

    the tablet is not an ideal control surface for me, due to lag, and lack of knobs/faders, it's better than compromising sound quality, or speed of getting work done.

    One over looked aspect of built in effects besides the obvious of not having to necessarily, buy/carry tons of outboard, is the fact that you don't have tons of connections to make, which can fail at any time, and be sometimes time consuming to track down. i know there are merits to both cases, and anyone familiar w/ my preferences knows i'm no purist to either thing. But for a gig at local bar or club, for lite money, i'll take consistency, and convenience. my back would surely will be happy.

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