Recording final mix to cd question

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by eddies880, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    Ive been using a Panasonic cd/cdr/cdrw recorder to record my final mixs (its an older unit,at least 5 yrs old).
    If Im not mistaken,the recorder is 16 bit,Im looking into a newer cd recorder thats 24 bit.
    Im running my final mix via a mixer,then into a TC Electronics finalizer,then into my cd burner------it leaves the mixer as analog,but outputs from the TC Electronics Finalizer as digital into the burner.
    My question is,does the finalizer have to be 24bit to match a cd recorder thats 24 bit to get the clarity---------------or will the burner add more clarity due to the fact that it 24 bit?
     
  2. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    All audio CD's are 16 bit. If you want to record at 24 bit, then you'll need something like a masterlink that you can then print what they call CD24 discs. But these won't play in a normal CD player. Eventually you will have to bump it down to 16 bit if you want to make an audio CD that people can play in their CD players.
     
  3. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    Thanks Mike-----thats all I need to know for now.
    Im sure I have 100 questions to ask,but I have to do my homework before I do.
    One things for sure---------Its not all that easy. :cry:Doing what you (master techs) do
     
  4. twenty4

    twenty4 Guest

    24-bit CD

    check this out...

    http://www.24bitcd.com

    or

    http://
     
  5. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Soooo, care to elaborate?
     
  6. Randyman...

    Randyman... Well-Known Member

    Yes - please elaborate. This looks like a dual sided CD with a 16 Bit Redbook CD on one side, and a 24 Bit "Computer/CD24" format on the other side? I doubt this format will "Take off" either.

    Besides, Windows Media Player (and probably iTunes ad most other "Jukeboxes") won't recognize 24 Bit Files, so the teeny-boppers won't be able to rip that 24 Bit audio into a 128kbps MP3 :lol: :lol:

    I don't think 24 bits of dynamic range at the end-user will do ANYTHING to bring dynamics back to pop music, and I really don't think the 16 Bit CD is "starved" for dymanic range as-is. It is the material we put ONTO the CD's that is "Starved for Dynamics" IMO . I'm guilty of this, too...

    So, what's with the websites? Are you doing this "24 Bit Hybrid" thing for Shania Twain's CD? Say "Hi" to Mutt for me :lol: . Where are you getting 24 Bit Masters from for this process? Just curious about your involvement, twenty4.

    :cool:
     
  7. Massive Mastering

    Massive Mastering Well-Known Member

    I thought HDCD crashed and burned five years ago...
     
  8. iznogood

    iznogood Guest

    "I don't think 24 bits of dynamic range at the end-user will do ANYTHING to bring dynamics back to pop music, and I really don't think the 16 Bit CD is "starved" for dymanic range as-is. It is the material we put ONTO the CD's that is "Starved for Dynamics" IMO . I'm guilty of this, too... "

    AMEN!!!!!
     
  9. twenty4

    twenty4 Guest

    My 24-bit CD.

    ok without getting into the politics of audio or the current state of pop music...

    here's how it works...


    it's just a standard red-book/bluebook(enhanced) cd.
    16 bits are sent to the audio portion of the disc
    the remaining 8 are sent to the data portion.

    some extra space is used for syncronization and error-detection.

    just think of it as "CD24" that also plays 16 bits on a regular cd player.

    i wrote this program.
    i hope some of you like the idea, i can use all the support i can get.


    the fact is that 24 sounds better than 16,
    and HDCD was a lie.


    it's called B.R.P. (or BiRP)

    binary reserve process

    or, the Bit Replacement Program, which sounds "snazzier" don't you think? ;)

    as far as 24 bit source material, i have none.

    currently i am in contact with 3 bands who are recording at 24/96 for their next release.

    they will allow me to put this extra data on their forthcoming cd's.

    my goal is to get at least 20-50 titles encoded in .brp within 12-15 months time.

    the decoder will either be present on the cd it came on, or may have a link to download the free (for now?) decoder.

    in the end everyone likes better sounding music and so many computers are coming shipped with 24-bit capabilities.

    i could really use some sample material if anyone is intrigued enough to help me out.

    otherwise i have been using ripped wav from brand new cd's i bought, then reduced by -24dB for 20-bit encoder, -48dB for 24-bit encoder.

    and by the way little suzy can make mp3's out of it.

    also, if mutt asks, you DID NOT see me with shania the other day ok?


    _______________________
    cute little saying here
     
  10. iznogood

    iznogood Guest

    "it's called B.R.P. (or BiRP)"

    or

    BuRP

    :lol:
     
  11. jdsdj98

    jdsdj98 Active Member

    So you've written the encoding and decoding software, and this software is required to re-assimilate the separated bits in order to play this back on a computer at 24 bits, thereby making this a proprietary piece of software only available through you?
     
  12. twenty4

    twenty4 Guest

    24 bit cd

    for now i will be the only one able to master it...


    if anyone else wants to participate GREAT!

    I'M NOT DOING THIS FOR MONEY
     
  13. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    I think it sounds interesting...

    One question, you said the redbook portion is 16 bit derived from a 24bit source and the remaining 8 bits are in the data portion. So if someone were to play the redbook audio on their CD player, then they would be listening to 16bit truncated audio? The type of music that would really benifit from 24bit would not sound great at 16bit truncated. Music that doesn't suffer too much with 16 bit truncation would probably not benifit with 24bit. I would be interested in taking a listen to it. If you need material, I have tons I could pick from.

    What i've been doing for some clients that want 24bit is just burn them a DVD-V disc with 24/48k files as a slideshow. Plays on any DVD player.
     
  14. Stuartvh

    Stuartvh Guest

    heres an idea

    Have you even heard of the masterlink by alesis. It is a great unit to put and store your mixes in. It has a hard drive (30/40 gig?) and it has on board compression, eq, normalizer, limiter and many more functions. I use one at all the time on every mix. I think it is a great affordable unit. about 799.00 you can find them less. Very good intestment.
     
  15. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Yes, I've heard of Masterlink. I own one. What 24 is talking about is delivering a product to the consumer without them having to buy a specialized piece of hardware.
     
  16. twenty4

    twenty4 Guest

    masterlink / dithering...

    yes the masterlink is nice, but CD24 discs do not play on regular cd players.

    as far as the dithering issue goes...

    i'm working on it. there are several ways of doing it.

    simplest way would be to just throw an extra bit or two per sample, but i have a few ideas that might be better.

    by the way, this cd can store anywhere from 17 to 24 or even 32 bits, and can support 44.1 and 88.2 sampling rate.

    anyway if you want to email me some tracks that would be great!

    you could rar them into 10mb chunks (non-sfx), or just let me know how to get them -- thanks!

    twentyfourbits@yahoo.com
     
  17. twenty4

    twenty4 Guest

    dynamic range

    by the way i'd like to comment on dynamic range.

    yes, 24-bits has greater bit-depth and therefore greater dynamic range than 16-bits.

    however, the real benefit to greater bit-depth is in the amount of DETAIL in the audio file, which is why vinyl sounds so good.
     
  18. Randyman...

    Randyman... Well-Known Member

    This actually does sound interesting, but I concur with Michael Fossenkemper's comments about 16 bit truncation on very dynamic material.

    Anyway, I wish you luck and hope you can get this worked out. I won't tell Mutt that I saw you with Shania if you don't tell Mutt she was at my house last night :lol: "If the house is a' rockin, don't come a' knockin' " :wink:

    :cool:
     
  19. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    I feel vinyl sounds good for other reasons rather than detail. I think that vinyl has less detail than modern digital.
     
  20. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    I'm still looking for some material. I just finished a mexican record today that I think would be good. It's mastered at 24bit 44.1 in SD2 dual mono files, does that work for you?
     

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