Recording spoken word on the go

Discussion in 'Vocals' started by j_doe, Nov 30, 2015.

  • AT5047

    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

  1. j_doe

    j_doe Active Member

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    Oh my... Tube/solid... Sound is complicated.

    Unfortunately, our family is living literally on different continents and grandfather is old... So I have no chance to f##k up with all this story.

    I have called one rental house and they've offered shotgun mic (Sennheiser) + pistol grip + external recorder for $50 per day. It translates into $700 for two weeks. Seven Benjamins for two weeks. Gosh.

    I've found good offer for Audient ID14. Will it work good enough with procaster/sm/your_favourite_dynamic_mic? Shop manager also recommends Scarlett 2 pre, but price difference is quite hefty.
     
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  2. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Audient preamps are well regarded. They put the same preamps in all their products and are present in their highend mixers. But they are not quite as precise as boutique preamps, like Focusrite ISA, Millenia or Grace preamps. That said, I'm not sure you need to go with such highend gear. Since I have ISA preamps, that would be my choice, if I had to record a voice without being intrusive too much. As for mics, I'd definitly try the SM 57 or SM 81 that I have, specially if the room is not treated... OR I'd try my wireless Sennheiser headset (lesser quality but no room noise)

    Will the Audient be a good match with procaster or shure SM...? Again it depends on the distance the mic will be from the source. If you can put the mic 6 to 12 inches of your Grandpa, you'll get away with lesser quality gear and the audient would be a good choice if the price is right. . .

    Of course all my recommandations take quality in consideration.
    If we put that a side and don't mind some room noises and reverb, a small kit like these could be well enough:
    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AudioBxi2Stu
    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BlueBirdScarBun
    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C214-2i2

    I again suggest you go in a store and make a few tests for yourself. Get a grip of the difference between a Dynamic and a Condenser mic and how they behave when you get close and far from them.
     
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  3. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    I would expect the ART usb to lack the gain need for an sm7. I had the rack version the vla, and it's pretty much silent even at full blast. This I belive is due to the tubes being only in the pre amp circuitry, and not the power section of the pre amp, like you'd have in a UA 610. The little arts might cut it but I've only ever used them as a DI. The vla is a decent buy for the buck, but it's best at not being bad, as opposed to being good. It's a step up from the most budget of interfaces. Any mid prices interface is going to have quiet gain at almost all settings. The tone will change, generally for worse as gain levels top out on these types of pres.

    The sm7 is a mic you really want to get up close to. It's just where its mojo lies.

    There's options like a simple passive in-line gain booster. I belive there's a product called the cloud lifter that is a more refined version of this idea.

    Also another thing to remember is in digital you don't need a ton of gain to get a good signal as its self noise is small. It's really the analog circuitry in the device which determines the noise floor. So just about any preamp that's not solely entry level should be just fine. Anything better than a presonus audiobox or m audio fast track type would be just fine. Even those are nice, but w an sm7 they will start to bring noise in.

    Audient has a great rep. The mico in particular has been recommended by a few knowledgable people over the years. Ditto for the groove tubes brick pre amp. Two devices with great reps which I have never personally used.

    You could look into the presonus eureka with the digital out option. This is a super solid channel strip for the price. It has no direct competitors. I've used these on a lot of stuff with a lot of mics and it's always solid. It easily competes w boxes 3-5x the price. Like the focusrite isa it is also transformer coupled. Although not 'vibey', which for voiceover is a good thing. The eureka also gives you added gain stages in the compresser and eq sections. I'm pretty sure even if they are bypassed, but don't quote me on that.

    If you can get a eureka or isa one or audienr mico with the digital out option you should be all set for what your trying to do. I belive the art vla has a digital option too.

    There's a reason why 99% of the mics you'll see in front of voiceovers/talk radio are dynamics and particularly shure sm7 or the ev re20. They work well on a wide variety of voices, and as you move closer into them they exaggerate the low end boom of the voice, in a generally pleasing manner. This is known as 'proximity effect'. Any mic, dynamic or condenser will have this (barring omni and figure 8 patterns) but we don't have to worry about that here.

    A shotgun mic is not what your looking for in this application. And for that price you were quoted you can own most of the pieces that have been mentioned by us. You'll want a basic boom stand, either desk mount or regular, and a good cable, for reliable performance.
     
  4. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    The RE20 has a very low proximity effect - one of the reasons that it is so often found in radio studios.
     
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  5. j_doe

    j_doe Active Member

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    Ordered Cloudlifter CL-1 yesterday! 1st step done. Planning to order interface (likely Steinberg ur12, as with CL-1 I should have enough of gain) and waiting for Rode Procaster to reach local distributor.

    Proximity effect is low, price tag is high... Everything balanced :)
     
  6. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    I can't remember that anyone have mention the Steingerg as an interface recommandation.. If I remember, they weren't the best driver maker..

    My choice would have been more with the Presonus or Focusrite... For the same price you can get the PreSonus AudioBox USB or the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
    I think they both have better preamps then the UR12.. Don't forget that even if you use a highend external preamp, if you go with a cheap interface, your signal will still go through a part of the preamp circuit. So the quality could be damage... I'm not saying the presonus and focusrite are Highend.. but they have both good reputation...

    At 449 USD I wouldn't consider it to be expensive. It's a pro mic that as a very specific design which has proven to give great for a numerous application (voiceover, guitar cab and Bassdrums etc..) Of course when we talk PRO equipement, some are less expensive, namely sm57 / 58 and others.. but with your needs the RE20 is a very good choice..
    Talking of expensive, we are far from this : Telefunken ELA M 251E at 9k ;)
     
  7. j_doe

    j_doe Active Member

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    No, it was my inner voice saying "Hey, they bundle it with some limited version of Cubase, so you don't need to pay for a DAW later".

    20130513shocked.jpg




    P.S After lurking around local audio shops, found used Sennheiser MKH-70 - (P48) for $250. Any thoughts? (yes, it works)
     
  8. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    I would not use a shotgun mic for this application.
     
  9. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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  10. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Presonus interfaces come with Studio One...
     
  11. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Ooooops thanks boz. Didn't know that. My new fact for the day.!!
     
  12. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Dude I think you may have missed a few things. The cloud lifter is only necessary with a gain hungry mic like the sm-7 and a weak preamp like a art usb or a budget interfaces pre.

    There's free versions of just about every DAW out there so that is not a true selling point.

    Condenser mics like the rode podcaster are probably the worst you could do in this case.

    And why the multi channel interface for a single channel?

    An sm58 and an isa one with digital outs will smoke what you are thinking, for the same money. The presonus eureka and art offerings with digital outs will also.

    Did you forget to mention you wanted to record other things with this setup? And therefore need a multi channel interface?

    From my angle you simply needed a nice robust pre with conversion built in. Not a bunch of conversion with some pres built in...

    Seriously man I think you've made a mistake. It could be that your seeking approval as opposed to advice? Lol and the shotgun mic? Why? are you filming this also? Maybe I missed something.

    Imho you had the budget for a very nice very pro mic/pre combo - sm-58 + (insert pre here), and basically squandered it on a pile of Sunday sale flyer junk (besides the cloud lifter wich may or may not be nessary). This is exactly the type of thread that picks up in a few months about what pluggin to use to make the tracks sound 'pro'. Seriously if you value your project on your grandfathers voice you need a mic and a pre of quality with a digital out option, which will convert just fine.

    At the risk of sound obnoxious, these threads always leave me dissapointed. You asked knowledgeable people got knowledgable answers, and didn't do anything that was suggested. Lol why not just say upfront- I'm thinking of this and this, how do I use it best?

    Hopefully there is a good return policy...(sigh)
     
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  13. j_doe

    j_doe Active Member

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    Sorry for confusion, I probably shouldn't mention it in the 1st place.

    Yeah, just noticed it because of the size (kind of a long one).

    Noted, thanks.

    Excuse me, but I think there is some confusion. First, podcaster is a dynamic USB mic and I have never mentioned it. I suspect you were thinking about Broadcaster, but again, I have never it as well, my plan was to go with Procaster (dynamic) as it sounds more or less close to SM7B and cost ~40% of it. Still need >55Db of gain according to a number of people reporting at "gearslutz" forum (offtopic: why the hell one would name a forum "gearslutz"?)

    Are you referring to ur12 I've mentioned in my last post? It's single channel. In case you were thinking about Audient ID14 that was discussed earlier, then because all reviews mentioned transparent and clean preamps + price here isn't too bad.

    Had no chance to try ISA One, but:
    1. It's 4 (four) kg. I simply have no space for this in my cabin baggage.
    2. Need external power.
    3. More expensive than cloudlifter + reasonable external interface.
    4. Still need an interface with digital in.

    I do, but only spoken word. E.g no singing or music instruments.

    With cloudlifter? Well, I need to provide enough of gain for dynamic microphone and keep size/weight/power requirements under control...

    I'd say "no", but my opinion could be biased.

    Please see my reply to Boswell.

    I have personally tried sm58 with presonus iOne in one of the local shops. Not impressed at all, sounds like talking into a paper box.

    Please read above about ISA One.

    I'm sorry you feel disappointed. I'm carefully noting all the opinions (even when they are suggestion opposite).
     
  14. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    I think it's not a bad Idea to go with the cloud lifter and a good interface with decent preamps. (on a budget and travelling)
    But Kmetal is right about the Focusrite ISA, it is considered to be the starting point of Highend preamps. It has 80db of clean power and it sounds very good compared to most audio interface integrated preamps and it would not need any cloudlifter.. The ISA is my first choice when recording low level instrument for that very reason ;)
     
  15. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    Not for nothin', but...

    http://recording.org/threads/cathedral-pipes-micro-amp-for-passive-mics.59118/

    Just thought this was pertinent to mention, if budgets are constrained... especially considering that this does exactly what the cloud lifter does... for about $70 less.

    Just sayin'.

    FWIW
     
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  16. j_doe

    j_doe Active Member

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    Ok, time to panic.

    panic-button.jpg


    Called the distributor who's promised me earlier that Procaster should arrive by approximately today. Got a reply: "Sorry, we haven't received tracking from Rode yet, so we can't confirm any date. Maybe next week". F##K! I'm flying back home next week. So, I need to sort this out rather promptly. Options:

    * Break the bank and buy SM7B despite its outrageous price here.
    * Audio-Technica BP40 (available as a special order, delivery in 3-5 days)
    * Cross the fingers and pray all gods that Procaster will be delivered in time.

    Nice. Maybe worth to spread the word about it.
     
  17. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    Well, I tried to... which is why I started a thread about it a few days ago. ;)
     
  18. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    Just to be clear, here... I do need to mention that I've never used it, so I can't personally speak to its quality.

    But I do know that Cathedral Pipes has a solid reputation, and is highly respected in the industry for making very nice microphones.
    One would assume that they could be trusted to uphold that quality with the micro-amp.

    FWIW
     
  19. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    + 1 on cathedral pipes, it's a real mic. Sorry didn't realize the senny interface was one channel. If you don't like the 58 you orabanly won't like the sm7, it's the same capsule I belive, but with a different transformer. I think you'll only need a cloud lifter if your using a low gain dynamic like the sm7, or a ribbon mic.
    Also sorry about blasting you for the rode, I was mistaken that it was a condenser. Either way usb type mics are not really designed in a way an sm, or chathedral pipes is.

    A note on gearsults, everyone over there hates everything except what they personally own. It's an extremely biased and large group. It is useful to see consensus things but still with a grain or ten of salt. I am a member there as well, but it's just that kind of place.

    An sm is probably the easiest mic to attain last minute. Can you rent a pre?
     
  20. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    http://www.shure.com/americas/products/accessories/microphones/microphone-replacement-cartridges

    sm7's, sm57's and sm58's all use different capsules.


    prod_img_r57_m.jpg prod_img_r59_m.jpg
    SM57........................................................................... SM58

    prod_img_rpm106_m.jpg
    SM7 - SM7A - SM7B

    much of the confusion is because the basic design of the capsules are the same with differences being method of suspension / mounting. despite this all three exhibit different frequency response and dynamic differences.

    an interesting note; the sm stands for "studio microphone" ....

    here's a great read on the topic.

    http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Shure/SM57
     
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