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Reverse Phase. How to? Please help!

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Mguitar34, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. Mguitar34

    Mguitar34 Guest

    I like to mic the bottum of the snare and the backside of the kick drum. I hear people on this site referring to "reverse phase" when micing things like this. I use Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro (I have a home studio) and I can't find anything that refers to reversing the phase. I understand this can be done to the cable itself, but I'm guessing there is some kind of trick to do it on a program.

    Any advice would be greatly apriciated.
  2. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Sep 26, 2005
    Reversing the phase has had many other names. You may want to look for something that says "invert"? Since I don't know your software? That term is used in other pieces of software and may in fact be in your software too?

    Now many other people here have their own special drum soup recipes. Here's mine.

    I will frequently use a SM57 or Sennheiser MD421 on the top side of the snare. On the bottom, I generally use a small capsule condenser but have also used another SM57. The bottom microphone is phase inverted.

    I like MD421, SM57, D112, RE20 and Crown PZM inside the bass drum. Depending on the kind of music, for a tighter harder hitting sound, I will phase invert the inside bass drum microphone. I don't usually put a microphone on the batter side of the bass drum, since the underside snare drum microphone is already so close. I've also only done it with a bass drum such as the one you see that Max Weinberg has on the Conan show, which has no hole in the front. The one you see on Max's is a Beyer M88. But we don't know what's on the batter side now do we?

    The conflict you may experience will be the numerous kinds of phase cancellation you will get. Your bottom snare drum microphone is phase inverted which will be very close to the batter side bass drum microphone which you don't want to phase invert. That scenario alone is going to cause some quite audible phase cancellations and so that is the reason why I generally will use one or the other but not both together. But the bottom line is, if you can make it work and sounds good to you, go for it!

    Beating around my bush
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  3. pr0gr4m

    pr0gr4m Distinguished Member

    Feb 9, 2005
    South Florida
    Home Page:
    I read the Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro forum and I found a few different posts asking about reversing phase within the program and all the replies were "I don't think you can do that in GT Pro".

    Your best alternative would be to export the track and phase reverse it in another program. Many audio editing programs will have this feature.
  4. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Moderator

    Feb 23, 2005
    Dumb question, I know, but here goes...
    Don't you hear the difference while you are tracking? That's when I make the decision to "flip phase" (really it's just polarity) with a little Shure gizmo that I've had for umpteen years...and, no, you ave to go to SONAR to have access to that ITB (Cakewalk-speaking)...
  5. Cosme

    Cosme Guest


    Hey Remy, just curious, how do you place your PZM inside the bass drum?
  6. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    Sep 26, 2005
    Cosme, generally I will place them on on whatever other "soft stuff" is inside the bass drum, pillow, blanket, sandbag. Sometimes, you have to use a little gaffer/duct tape to hold them in place. I never let them physically connect with the shell of the drum. Very bright with lots of attack sounding. Talk about "Pressure Zone" microphone!

    Pressure Zone engineer
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  7. cusebassman

    cusebassman Active Member

    Sep 13, 2006
    Not that I have much phase switching advice... perhaps, as was mentioned, could you flip the wav file represented by one track of recording? My comment is just on the fact that Remy used Max Weinberg as an example for, well, anything... I don't think I've ever heard him mentioned in any forum or discussion before, but he is a very good player - it just so happens the only places you see him are as the band leader of a late-night talk show and the drummer for Bruce Springsteen's E Street band (where he gets in very little intricate playing)...
  8. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    polarity is one specific phase error

    phase shift and group delay is continous and with respect to frequency

    EQs, Filters, Speakers and many other audio circuits or devices have a phase response proportional to frequency

    Hi Pass Filter
    Low Pass Filter
    Band Pass Filter - made up of Hi Pass + Low Pass

    Too much Geek Stuff Kev ?
    but at least I left the formulas out

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