Rock drum 2-mix comp - hardware or software?

Discussion in 'Tracking / Mixing / Editing' started by bassmac, Jan 15, 2002.

  1. bassmac

    bassmac Guest

    The best plug comp I have is the Ren Comp, but it sounds to loose. I want something that's going to really make the drums pop. Is there a good plug (rtas) for this, or is hardware the only way to do it well...if so, which box?
     
  2. erockerboy

    erockerboy Member

    I'm really loving my Alan Smart C2 (SSL soundalike 2ch comp) for this... altho there are some options in plug-in land for this too, I think. Do you have ChannelStrip? There's a preset on there called "industrial" or something like that... worx great on drums for that "pop".
     
  3. Masternfool

    Masternfool Active Member

    Bassmac, have you messed with the attack/release..solo the snare,crank it up and compress..then slowly raise the attack till just the pop is getting thru..?? best
     
  4. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    According to gurus like George Massenburg there are A LOT of digital - tech things that make the design of a good digital compressor plug in very DIFFICULT..

    I find most of them poor.. i am desperate for some great ones to be released.

    Here is a guy that has a plan. He has produced Mandy Moore and other contemporary radio pop smashes, go see what he has to offer and what folks say about it..

    http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=005770

    I haven't tried it out yet...

    I have high hopes for the Sony Oxford Compressor.. I had an RTAS beta demo of it - it was cool! (but I sort of lost it, or it 'timed out' on me! SONY SEND ME ANOTHER ONE PLEASE!!!!)

    :)
     
  5. John A

    John A Guest

    Originally posted by bassmac:
    The best plug comp I have is the Ren Comp, but it sounds to loose. I want something that's going to really make the drums pop. Is there a good plug (rtas) for this, or is hardware the only way to do it well...if so, which box?

    Put your kick snare toms and overheads to a submix and put on a Renn Comp. Put it on electro, auto release, and warm. drop the ratio to like 4:1. Start out by putting the attack towards the right and the release towards the left. Push the threshold so that kick and snare smack about 6 db of gain reduction, then put the limiter up to like 8 or 9 db. Now adjust the attack and release so that the attaack is still kinda slow but agressive enough to throw the snare in your face, and keep the release kinda quick. Sounds punch as hell and keeps the top end and cymbals nice and open and doesnt clank them like many hardware comps can do. I really don't think any hardware compressor under a grand will have an open enough to end in a mucho squash mode to do a drum sub squash. I use an SSL comp for it and it works great, but in software land, I use the Renn Comp. Its easy and sounds great if you know how to use it. try this and tell me what you think... btw, what DAW do you have?
     
  6. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    I really dig the Really Nice Compressor for drum-sub. I usually use Super Nice Mode, but regular is cool for an aggressive sound.
     
  7. buickwilson

    buickwilson Guest

    I've started using the Finalizer on the Drum Submix on a few recent mixes. It's about the only thing that I found I can use it for...

    Previously the drum mix went through a Tubetech LCA2B.

    I also like the Channel Strip SSL patch that Jules referenced.
     
  8. erockerboy

    erockerboy Member

    I've started using the Finalizer on the Drum Submix on a few recent mixes. It's about the only thing that I found I can use it for...

    Wow, I totally forgot! I have gotten some of the best drum sounds of my life (in digital-land anyways) using the Finalizer as a bus comp for drums!

    The trick is to use the "DRG" process to add a bit of spit and squash, and then smash the hell out of the normalizer stage. I found that both the DRG and normalizer in particular interacted pretty well with the other comp's that I had on the individual drum trax. On kick and snare, I was compressing the SNOT out of 'em on the individual tracks, to just let the initial spike of the attack come thru the compressor. Then I'd bus the kick, snare, OH's and room mics all together on a stereo mix bus, and put the Finalizer over that. I found the Finalizer's "DRG" feature to add a nice tape-like squash to the aforementioned "spikes" on the kick 'n' snare attacks... just kinda flattening the transients in a very analog-ish way, giving more body to the sound while preserving the "crack" of the attack. I was then able to crank the normalizer threshold down to frightening levels, and add in just enough of the OH and room mics so that they would get "sucked up" by the normalizer and really start to blend into a cohesive kit sound. I'm tellin' ya, for a digital mix it was absolutely HUGE! Plus you have the option of using the Finalizer's multiband compressor if you need to change the overall spectral balance of the kit, i.e. pull down a overplayed sizzle hat or add a subsonic bass thump to the kick.

    Indeed, this is the only thing I would still use a Finalizer for. Try it sometime, ya might be surprised.
     
  9. dave-G

    dave-G Active Member

    Originally posted by John A:


    Put your kick snare toms and overheads to a submix and put on a Renn Comp. Put it on electro, auto release, and warm. drop the ratio to like 4:1. Start out by putting the attack towards the right and the release towards the left. Push the threshold so that kick and snare smack about 6 db of gain reduction, then put the limiter up to like 8 or 9 db. Now adjust the attack and release so that the attaack is still kinda slow but agressive enough to throw the snare in your face, and keep the release kinda quick.

    Uh ... Wow. Maybe I'm misreading you, but for one thing, if you have your RenComp set for auto-release, you can move that release time slider wherever you want and it'll do its own thing anyway. :D

    -dave
     
  10. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    The finalizer has a through put delay
    either:

    1ms
    10ms
    0ms (!) but I serously have doubts about that!

    Selectable

    Doesnt the Finalized stuff get out of time or phase when combined with the other drum elements?

    BTW I was a HIGE fan or the DRG prosess, for a few years ALL my mixes had it on (5)..

    Perhaps I should get mine out of moth balls and try this!

    :)
     
  11. erockerboy

    erockerboy Member

    Jules-- believe it or not, I was running my *entire* drum submix thru the Finalizer, and then using that as the sole drum sound in the main mix! Call me crazy but it WORKED. Anyhoo, you're right about the 10ms lookahead delay thingie, but since I wasn't recombining the Finalized drums with the original, it was a simple matter to just timeshift everything a few ms if needed. I suppose if you wanted to mix it back in with the original, it would be a simple matter to print the Finalized version to a new stereo track and simply move it at that point.

    The "DRG" process can sound pretty great on drums! That's about the only thing I really like it on, though. The few times I tried using a Finalizer across my whole mix as a bus comp, "DRG" always seemed to interact with certain mix elements in a really harsh and nonmusical manner. On the drum mix though, it's pure magic.
     
  12. That have been my experience too! :roll:
     
  13. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Hmmm..

    Need to try that sometime soon.....

    :)

    :w:

    P.S I just thought of a 'twist' for you... Set the look ahead dealy to be 10ms then record a little of the result of the Finalized track, measure the delay (probably several samples more than just 10ms) then create duplicate playlists of all the drums and nudge them forward by the required amount... Then you have a cool look ahead compression!!!

    Ahh gear gear & more gear!
     
  14. gie

    gie Guest

    Originally posted by dave-G:

    Uh ... Wow. Maybe I'm misreading you, but for one thing, if you have your RenComp set for auto-release, you can move that release time slider wherever you want and it'll do its own thing anyway. ;) ) a difference!
     
  15. John A

    John A Guest

    Originally posted by dave-G:


    Uh ... Wow. Maybe I'm misreading you, but for one thing, if you have your RenComp set for auto-release, you can move that release time slider wherever you want and it'll do its own thing anyway.

    If you're trying to stay with a plugin, the McDSP CompressorBank and MC2000 are really the most flexible and best sounding plug-in compressors, HO. I still use the RenComp a lot, but for making drums go THWACK! , they don't do quite as well as the McDSP stuff.
    -dave


    I should have edited that as auto release "off" as I went on to say that the release should be towards the left or faster side. I've used the McDsp Stuff and found it to sound no better in that application then the easy as hell to set renn comp. I've gotten extremely punchy drums with that thing. I personally use an Alan Smart but when mixing in PT I go with the Renn comp over the compbank. I do however like the McDsp Eq over the Renn Eq. I think the channelstrip eq is weird and kinda closed sounding, although I haven't messed with it as much as the Renn and McDsp stuff.
     
  16. bassmac

    bassmac Guest

    John A, Your suggestions have been giving me better results with the Ren...thanks for the tips.

    It's not uncommon that my tools are more capable than I am.
     
  17. Hardnox

    Hardnox Guest

    dumb question, but do you guys have any tips on hip-hop drums? Also are you guys compressing kick, snares, etc. individually before you compress them as a group? Or do you send them in dry and compress once as a group? Thanks for the help.
     
  18. Ang1970

    Ang1970 Well-Known Member

    Originally posted by Danny K.:
    dumb question, but do you guys have any tips on hip-hop drums?Not dumb at all. IME, for the sound of hip-hop drums it is more important to have some kind of distortion. This can be achieved by a pedal, amp simulator (pod etc.), plug in (lo-fi, amp farm, sans amp, etc), shitty sampler (sp1200, s900, etc), or even maxing out sections of a mixer channel. Such overload usually has the effect of compressing the signal a great deal, and may reduce the amount of compression needed (if any at all). Or maybe the compressor itself is what gives you the right tone. It's all about the vibe you want to create.

    Also are you guys compressing kick, snares, etc. individually before you compress them as a group? Or do you send them in dry and compress once as a group?That's definite "maybe". In the immortal words of Smooth B, "Sometimes I rhyme slow, sometimes I rhyme quick."
     
  19. Hardnox

    Hardnox Guest

    Well, as far as distortion. If you listen to Dr. Dre's drums they are always incredibly clean and very present. Clean low end kick and a snare that slaps you right across the face. Also, aren't some pre-frabricated drum samples already compressed?
     
  20. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    I was talking to NYC Engineer Rob Darling last night, he made me laugh when he described desirable low end on drums as "dropping like a bucket of lead"!!!

    :)
     

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