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audio Rock Song - "Away From It All" plz crit

Discussion in 'Fix This MIX!' started by CrazyLuke, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. CrazyLuke

    CrazyLuke Active Member

    Please let me know what can be improved with this rock mix. The higher numbered track is the most recent mix.



     

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  2. CrazyLuke

    CrazyLuke Active Member

    For this latest song, Away from it All, please let me know which mix has the best sounding, and functioning bass tone and level .







     

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  3. Sean G

    Sean G Well-Known Member

    I like the second mix...the bass is a bit more prevalent and it sounds a little fuller IMO
     
  4. CrazyLuke

    CrazyLuke Active Member

    Please check out the latest sample - mix 58
     
  5. Sean G

    Sean G Well-Known Member

    I still prefer the second sample above, but I suppose its all subjective...

    - To personal preference, listening environment, monitoring set-up, just to name a few;)
     
  6. Sean G

    Sean G Well-Known Member

    Maybe we could ask our resident award-winning engineer & producer @DonnyThompson to lend his golden ears for a valued opinion:D
     
  7. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Oh Gawd Stop... I am absolutely no more qualified to give an opinion here than anyone else is... c'mon, now, Sean, you know that. Nothing has changed. I'm still the same Donny. I still make mistakes, I still have the same difficulties with mixing that any other guy here has. We're all on the same quest ...to make the best music possible, with the best quality possible. Some are easier than others, and others are a lot tougher.

    But I don't have a problem voicing an opinion when asked. Out of all the mixes I heard, I would choose the second one as the best of the bunch, and if asked why, the primary reason would be the beefier low end.

    There are some things I don't care for with any of the mixes, but I think Luke is way past the point on wanting to change any of that now, and besides, anything I would say would just be purely subjective at this point.

    He's not asking us how we would mix it, or asking for particular suggestions as to what we would do. He's not bothered by anything in particular.
    He's mixed four final versions, and he's requesting that we tell him which we think is the best of those four he's presented.
    Under that criteria, my vote is for the second version.

    d.
     
  8. Sean G

    Sean G Well-Known Member

    -I'm only having fun with ya mate:p....but your opinion is well valued
     
  9. CrazyLuke

    CrazyLuke Active Member

    Thanks Donny and Sean. BTW, do you two have some kind of rift going? Anyway, I guess what I want to hear the most from Donny is if I'm now going in the right direction re: not overcooking my mixes by over compression, which was an prior critique by Don of my earlier mixes. Donny, please let me know now if you hear any anomalies or distortion in this mix 59.
    thx

     

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  10. Sean G

    Sean G Well-Known Member

    Lol...no, its all in jest...Donny has been very helpful to me, he is a wealth of info and I respect his views on many topics(y)
     
  11. DogsoverLava

    DogsoverLava Active Member

    For me Luke there's almost too much separation here. Each drum piece sounds like a separate instrument looking for a unique place in the mix. These little percussive elements from each singular piece are so all over this mix that it's distracting and I lose two things --- the guitar -- which thematically is awesome, and which should be driving this piece and gluing it together with all the little pocket hooks and accents, and the amazing vocal --- a vocal that I have a great affinity for despite any flaws that it may have -- I actually love it. This was I think the second song of yours I heard when I first joined the forum and whenever I see your user name it starts playing in my mind. I want the drums to be a single instrument. This has the effect of me imagining 20 guys each playing a piece of a kit. That's probably why I too tend to prefer the more bottom ended mix because it tames that separation and gives the piece more unity.

    What I'm confused about as well - and I don't have the experience to know why I'm confused by this --- is what instrument is establishing the time/pocket/feel ---- Like what's the most basic bed track where all the time and accents and deviations from time are established? I don't know if part of the separation I hear sonically is all mix related, or is it performance related in terms of cohesion of feel in the tracking. For all my own stuff (working solo in my bedroom right now) this question is big for me - a puzzle I'm trying to better understand - where and how to establish, and maintain the feel of a piece at it's most basical level. It's something I can do and understand very well in a live performance (either solo or with a band) but still struggle with in my one man studio environment.

    And can I give a shout out again to that crazy out of this world vocal -- It's got that operatic character in it that makes me totally visualize the guy singing it and I love the image it conjures up to me. If I remember correctly it was an old vocal take from a different actual recording? I think there's magic in this track.

    Of course as always my criticism should be taken in context with my own bio - I'm a novice as a recording/mixing person.
     
  12. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Not at all... we're just jokin' around with each other. Sean's a great guy, has been a very cool addition to the RO Family, a great contributor. He was just teasing me over an award I recently received. ;)

    I'm not hearing any distortion on this one.
    Although, there are some places where I can hear some pitch correction artifacts happening, they aren't distorting per se', but they are "breaking up" the vocal up in a way that is typical to "over-tight" Formant/Fourier-tracking as the correction kicks in, and I find those to be somewhat distracting, unless that's the effect on the vocal that you were intentionally going for.

    The other thing about using too much compression/limiting on a whole mix, ( and that I don't feel is paid enough attention to by newer engineers) is how doing so can also end up zapping your lower end - with the exception of using a side-chain on the reduction, or a multiband, where you can fine-tune the range and take certain frequencies and ranges out of the compressor's detection circuit - compressors/limiters love to grab onto and attenuate lower frequencies, because that's where the bulk of the db energy "lives" in most rock-style content.

    So, it's gonna be grabbing onto the kick, bass, (and all the other lower range stuff), which, unlike higher frequency transients, is also much slower to recover, because of lower frequency's inherent sustain. Even at faster release times, it's still going to take longer to recover than something "faster", like a hi hat or crash, because lower frequency instruments "hang around" for a longer period of time to begin with, and each time the compressor grabs that lower range, it's going to attenuate it - because that's what it's designed to do. So, you look for a ratio and threshold that will effect them in a fine balance, as opposed to a continual heavy reduction that you'll get with much higher ratios - where you get into actual limiting - and find the best balance of volume vs dynamics, where the frequency range of your original mix is as unaffected as possible.

    It also depends greatly on what type of gain reduction you use on the mix; using certain limiters will add character - that may or may not serve the mix in the best of way(s).
    Generally speaking, when limiting an entire mix, I'm usually looking for a limiter that is as transparent as possible... and not all of them are.

    I'll add one more thing, and this is based on personal experience...

    While I don't believe that you have over-cooked the GR on these versions as much as you have on previous versions, I think that you yourself might be a bit "over-cooked" on this song/mix... ;)
    Seriously, you've been working on this one a lot, Luke; and trust me, I know what that's like... I burned myself out many, many times on a recent album project I did ... but often I didn't have the luxury of walking away, because I had a concrete deadline to meet.
    I think you may need to walk away from this one for a week or so - if you can - and then approach it again with fresh ears and a renewed objectivity.... unless you also have a deadline to make; or, you are indeed happy with these final 3 or 4 versions, and are just looking for advice on which of these last 4 you should go with as your absolute final version for release.

    If that's the case, my vote remains for number two... Still, though.... I think you can do better. It all comes down to how you feel about it, and if you want to put more time into it. ;)

    IMHO of course.

    PS... I really do like the song, it's got a cool Nugent kinda vibe to it, and I think it's worth putting the time into it to get it as good as you possibly can. ;)

    -donny
     
  13. Sean G

    Sean G Well-Known Member

    You can't go wrong with advice like that(y)
     

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