Rode Microphones - need help choicing

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by falcon1, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. falcon1

    falcon1 Guest

    Hello, I'm planning to record me playing on pipe organ and there will be also a trumpet player which will play some stuff with me.

    Now I need to choice what microphones I will buy for the project, and I was thinking about buying Rode microphones. I'm not sure what microphones I should choose.

    Was thinking about getting two of their NT1000 or NT2000. Is that good choice or will some of their other mics be better?

    Also, is it enough to use only 2 microphones for my task?

    Sincerely,
    falcon1
     
  2. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Hey falcon1 -

    Welcome to RO. Might I suggest that you complete your profile to let us know a little more about you - where you're located, etc.

    We need a little more information here to help you out.

    1st, what medium will you be recording to? Analog, digital (Hard disc, optical media, solid state)

    2nd, what kind of mic preamps do you have?

    3rd - what kind of experience do you have?

    4th - what kind of other gear do you have to go along with the mics? Do you have the cables, do you have stands tall enough for pipe organ (20' or higher)

    I have to admit, recording pipe organ is incredibly difficult. Adding another instrument into the mix only adds complexity. I mean absolutely no offense by suggesting this, but if you're unsure as to what mic and how many of them to use, I would suggest that you probably should hire someone to do the recording for you. For the cost of the microphones you would need to do this (even the inexpensive Rodes), you could hire a good recording engineer to come in and do the work.

    In fact, for the cost of 3 Rode NT1000's (the bare minimum to do the job), I could be on site for the better part of the day and instead of Rodes, I would be bringing Schoeps, Gefells, Royers, Neumanns, etc. That's just one example.

    No matter where you live, there's probably a guy just like me or many of the other listers here that would be willing to help and have extensive experience with recording on-location acoustical works. (Don't just go to the local recording studio - you will likely NOT like the results. Consult with some of the orchestras in the area and find out who they use. Or let us know where you reside and I'm sure someone on the list can help you out!)

    Sorry if this isn't the answer you were looking for, but recording organ with anything less than the best gear (think thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of $$$$$) rarely works out to be a positive thing.

    Cheers!

    Jeremy
     
  3. falcon1

    falcon1 Guest

    Hi Cucco,

    thank you for your reply - no offence taken. :)

    1 & 2. I will connect the microphones to probably Echo Audiofire and record with my laptop.

    3. Little experience on live recording but several years on the midi front. But want now to gain experience in live recording too. :)

    4. Not much stuff currently.

    Hehe.... yea, I like to get into the deep waters quickly. ;) :D But I also like to be able to do most things myself, that's main reason for not hire somebody to do it for me - I want to do it myself and gain some experience in this field.
    Also want the freedom to be able to record whenever I feel like it. ;)

    Btw. I will probably start recording in smaller venues where the pipework isn't positioned very high and maybe easier to record properly. :)

    Again thanks for your reply!
     
  4. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    No problem.

    I would advise you to look at the Rode NT55 if you want to stick with Rodes. They are a very nice microphone and give you the option of both omni and cardioid.

    For the organ, provided it's within a decent space, you'll probably want to use omni mics which will allow you the full low extension of the lower pipes. I don't find that I get near this extension with large diaphragm multi-pattern mics as they means in which they obtain omni is by summing two cardioid signals and not by using acoustic pressure as a true omni does.

    As for the stands, I can't recommend the JTL 20' light stand highly enough (pun not really intended...) They're dirt cheap (around $175 USD) and they quite comfortably go beyond 20' with a decent amount of weight on them!

    For the trumpet, my first bet is almost always a ribbon, second choice is usually a Neumann TLM193, but since you are looking at the (more affordable) Rode line, I would think that either the NT1A, NT2 or NT2000 would be sufficient. Of course, you may also want to consider a dynamic for the trumpet. It may be less "glamorous" than the Large Diaphragm Condenser, but a good dynamic is worth its weight in gold. (Well, maybe not worth its weight in gold, but at least worth its weight chocolate.)

    FWIW, I really like the Echo Audio line of products. All of them represent extremely good value and quality regardless of price. Their customer service rocks too!

    Cheers!

    Jeremy

    PS -

    What part of Iceland? My family and I are considering a trip (vacation) to Iceland soon. From everything I've seen and heard, there's hardly a part that isn't awe inspiring. That and I've also heard that not everyone there hates us bloody Americans for the atrocities of our government.
     
  5. falcon1

    falcon1 Guest

    Thank you Cucco! :)

    Will look at the Rode NT55 and also look for those stands - must be available somewhere in Iceland...

    So you would definitely use seperate mic for the trumpet? Some which I have talked to said that it would work to use only 2 mics for this project, are the wrong?

    I agree on Echo Audio - I have Echo MiaMidi and it has never failed on me. :)

    Re: Iceland - I'm from Reykjavik, have lived on the east coast of Iceland past 3 years though. But I'm moving this month back to the capital. :)
    It's true that Iceland is breathtaking experience! All people are welcome in Iceland even Americans. :lol:
    Feel free to let me know when you come, I can arrange transfers and tours for you. :)
     
  6. liuto

    liuto Guest

    Hi, Jeremy already gave you very good advice. I just wanted to add, that you can do the whole thing with two microphones of course but the result will most likely be more of documentary quality, as it will be difficult to obtain perfect balance with the trumpet. If you have the possibility, take yourself some time with the organ and find a good spot for the mics, which should be possible for the organ solo pieces. Then ask the trumpet player to play with you and listen carefully for the recording changing the position, direction, maybe dynamics of the trumpet player, maybe also fine tune the mic position. Keep notes of what you did, listen to the recordings for a few days in different places (I love my car's stereo for this!) and then decide for the final setup. If you get a satisfying result in this room you are lucky, if not, the setup needs rethinking and maybe different technique (spots, etc). If the organ has a rear positive ("Rückpositiv" don't know the expression for the small organ at your back) the whole thing will still be more complicated as you also have to consider acoustic perspective.
    As for the microphones I personally tend to use small diaphragm condensers as much of the sound will be coming from the room and SDCs have better and more predictable diffuse field responses than LDCs. One other point ist that you will be working fairly high with your mic stand and two NT2000 or similar will have quite some weight compared to NT55 making the setup uncomfortable to move around. Schoeps/DPA/Sennheiser and Neumann SDC are industry standard for this kind of recordings. Nevertheless I would happily use my Oktava MK012 omnis if my Schoeps MK2s were broken and I had to deliver a usable recording. You surely get similar results with NT55 or SP C4 or the like. Be sure to have an omni option as this will give you the whole range of the organ if the room sounds nice.

    Best regards to Reykjavik vom Rekawinkel :)
    Hermann
     
  7. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    You've had some great advice here. I'm a fan of Rode mics, and have many in my mic locker.

    However, some time ago, I happened to have the opportunity of recording a solo trumpet using both a Rode NT2-A and an AT 4033a, and I actually preferred the AT - it wasn't quite as shrill.
     
  8. Simmosonic

    Simmosonic Active Member

    Agreed. I would add my support for the Rode NT55s. With the omni capsules fitted I reckon they perform considerably above their price point, offering a good set of positives with very few negatives.

    Personally, I'd be going with just a pair of microphones - but I'm a minimalist and sometimes I fall into the trap of putting the method before the music.

    Nonetheless, I have recorded numerous 'organ + one other instrument' recitals, including trumpet, trombone, and harp. One of the most important things to consider with a trumpet is that it is very directional; you can use this to your advantage (i.e. in the absence of directional microphones, use a directional instrument!). Find the right place to put your microphones to capture the organ properly (distance and spacing) and then orient the trumpet appropriately to get the desired balance of wet and dry. It ought to be possible to have the trumpet player standing next to you at the organ console and still be recorded well simply by making sure the trumpet is facing the right direction. Once you find that direction, you'll need to make sure the trumpet doesn't move around too much because the tone will change considerably.

    This approach will put both instruments at roughly the same 'distance' from the listener in the recording. But if you want the trumpet to appear much closer than the organ, you'll definitely want a spot mic.
     
  9. falcon1

    falcon1 Guest

    Thank you all for your comments and advice!
     

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