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sample accurate? help please/audio quality

Discussion in 'Recording' started by trock, Oct 12, 2004.

  1. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    Ok i have been to my cubase forum, my 2480 forum and my m-audio forum, needless to say i cannot figure out what is wrong here and now i have a bunch of people blaming another person's equipment which does not help me.

    So i am turning to the 1 forum i know i can get a straight answer(s) to this issue i am having.

    Ok here goes.

    On one hand i have a vs2480, triton pro, POD, Taylor acoustic direct in and a 4050 mic for vocals. this is the set up i have used for a while and obtained very good results with.

    then i ended up buying a MAC G5 running Cubase SX 3 and a bunch of other programs and plug ins, to record into cubase i bought an m-audio 410

    SO here is my issue. When i run my taylor acoustic into the 2480 straight to a track with a little comp on the insert i get a wonderful, crisp, bright sounding acoustic track. 44.1/16

    When i run the same guitar into the 410 and into cubase it is muddy and muted (vol level is fine), even with a little EQ and comp on the insert here i have a much worse sound. 44.1/16 or 24

    So i asked a friend who told me to use the 2480 and run the guitar into there and out the optical to the 410 and into cubase since the A/D converters were far better on the 2480 than the 410. so i do this and again my guitar tracks are bad, i mean noticeably different than the 2480

    I wanted to start using my G5/Cubase set up, have purchased the UAD-1 studio Pak, and the waves Power Pak to help.

    So i am pretty upset that the 8-10K or so i have spent on the MAC/Cubase/other programs/plug ins sound so much worse than my 2480 all in one???

    this is also why i posted my answer to that person's questions about PC or all in one here on this forum. my all in one 2480 just blows this other set up away (so far)

    1) so my question is this, another friend said my stuff may not be sample accurate and could be losing sound quality that way?? what does he mean??? and could this really be happening with my set up??

    2) is there any way the 2480 could actually be a better recording device than

    MAC G5, dual 1.8, 2 internal HD's 160 adn 250gig
    Cubase SX 3
    Reason 2.5
    UAD-1 studio apk
    WAVES power pak
    PEAK 4.12

    any ideas as to why this is soooooo different and what to check for?? if i would have known this would be like this i would have spent the $ on other stuff and stuck with the 2480

    thanks much :oops: :(
  2. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    can't you save your things with the vs and then transfer them via usb to your computer!
    for what i know the VS2480 saves files in wav format, so you can transfer them to your computer, either by usb or firewire or cd...
    i think you can do that... can't you?
    this way you'll have the same sound with the same a/d conversion...
    and you do change the pre-amp right? of course the pre from the VS is different from the pre on the m-audio 410 (does it have pres? i don't know this soundcard...)
  3. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    i've checked which soundcard is...
    of course you don't get the same sound!
    the pres are different!
    not just the a/d conversion!
    what i think you should do is save your wav files and transfer the sessions from the VS to the G5
  4. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    hi inloco

    i am trying to follow you here.

    i don't want to record in the 2480 and then transfer to the cubase/mac

    i just want to record into the cubase/mac

    i know the 410 and 2480 converters are different, that is why i was told to go the 2480 route and optically play straight into the cubase program
  5. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    of course don't expect to get a sound like the vs with that cheap soundcard!
    if you just want to record with the g5 sell the vs and with the money buy something like the motu 828 mkII with maybe some cool pres, grace, avalon, sebatron...
    your problem isn't just the a/d!
    it's mostly the pre-amp!
  6. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004

    well that makes some sense

    so do you think the Pre's on the 2480 are ot so hot then??
  7. zemlin

    zemlin Distinguished Member

    Sep 4, 2004
    Indianapolis, IN
    Home Page:
    It might be worthwhile to post some short samples of what you're hearing - from both systems.
  8. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    hey zemlin

    yes that would be the ideal, however i am not sure where to post things here and i do not think the 2480 can be mixed to anything but .wav thus taking up a lot of room somehwere

    cubase can do Mp3 though, but i haven't mixed andything down yet since this was my first project in cubase
  9. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    trock don't get me wrong but that post tell's me you are a novice in recording...
    there are a lot of programs that can save it to mp3 or whatever format you want!
    cool edit pro is one that is amazing!

    and i don't think the pres on the vs are hot! i don't know them! i have an old vs840... don't use it but the sound was nothing special!
    but what i think of the pres is they're nothing special! don't expect great pres with that kind of material! in my opinion stations like the VS is for people who don't know much about recording and working with a computer! they see all those features and knobs and think it is a brilliant tool... with half the budget you can get that going with computer recording (my opinion...)
    but if you want we can help you upgrade!
  10. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    yes inloco i am still a novice

    i am pretty good with the 2480 on it's own but really want to get to the MAC setup i have

    Talking to my sweetwater rep he suggested i sell the 2480 and 410 and get

    RME 800 and an avalon Pre??

    any thoughts on this??

    don't worry i don't take offense easily :)
  11. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    i've never tried RME but i hear amazing things about it!
    The fireface 800 is a new product and it seems to be very good!
    i'm buying stuff for my homestudio now and the goal i have is to be portable! firewire is my choice! if my budget would allow i'd choose it too but because i can't afford i'll go with the motu 828mkII which is fine too!
    as for the pre is really a trick question!
    what i'd do is go to that store (oh boy... usa, usa... why don't we have that here... :( )
    try them all! grace, tlaudio, avalon, presonus...
    for what i hear the avalon is tricky! for some overrated, for others with the proper mic it's amazing...

    but in conclusion i too would sell the 2480! as for the 410 i would think twice... if you want to be able to do small recordings when you go away or something like that, the 410 may be a good choice for recording that demo that is in your head!
    tell us what's your gear right now! everything and tell us what can you spend!
  12. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    I have

    Roland vs2480, 4 vs8f-2 effects cards, CDR-II external CD burner

    Triton Pro workstation

    POP guitar effects

    1 alvarez and 1 taylor acoustic, 1 paul reed smith electric

    1 audio technica 4050 mic

    JBL analog speakers

    M-audio 410

    MAC G5, dual 1.8, 2 int HD's 160 and 250 gig, 3 gigs RAM, dual monitor

    Cubase SX 3
    Reason 2.5
    UAD-1 Studio Pak
    WAVES Power Pak
    PEAK 4.12
    Tracks -24

    thats it
  13. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    so what do you need to record?
    drums do you need? if so... need mics?
    i can see you're a guitarist! i'd buy a shure sm-57 for close micing the amp (didn't mention which one...)
    as for pre the sebatron gets great review out here!
    kurt is a pre-amp expert! he can tell you a few ones!
    what are your goals with recording? demos? ideias? record your band?
  14. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    Well i just want to record my songs

    mostly acoustic based in the speed of dave mathews/country pop like faith hill etc
  15. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    love dave matthews band!!!
    today i posted in my blog grace is gone! love that music! have all their cds!!!

    for that i would suggest two good mics! maybe something like an akg 451 and another condenser you can use for vocals
    as for the pre... a tube one! maybe the 737 from avalon can be a good choice! but look at the sebatrons too!
  16. Thomaster

    Thomaster Guest

    if it really are the pre's that are causing the dull sound (which i doubt.. i have the 410 too, and one of its great qualities is to me the pre's..)
    anyway, if it really are the pre's, then why not just route the pre's of the 2480 to the line-ins on the back of your 410? (don't forget to push the 'Mic/Line' switches)
    i cannot imagine you won't be able to create any sound on that setup.. man.. you have just spent thousands of $$ on a SUPER-system many people could only dream of ever getting their hands on.. if you can't make as great a recording with this stuff as on the 2480......
    i'm lost..
  17. Duardo

    Duardo Guest

    Sure, especially if you know your 2480 well and don't really know how to get the most out of your Mac setup yet...

    And the 410 seems to be the weakest link in your chain...and perhaps the most important one.

    Have you tried coming optically out of the 410 and into your 2480 to monitor that way? You may be hearing primarily the difference in D/A converters if you're having the same problem when you go in from the 2480.

  18. trock

    trock Active Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    thanks for all the suggestions and help here

    Actually i do route optically between the 2480 and the 410 and the fire wire into the MAC

    I am now looking at getting an RME 800 fireface and an avalon M5 ??

    that was recommeneded to me just a few days ago??

    any thoughts on that
  19. Bhennies

    Bhennies Guest

    unless you're stuck with a laptop, there are some pretty great PCI interfaces that are much cheaper than the RME. I have heard a lot of great things about the lynx cards, seem to be pretty reasonably priced as well. Just me, but I'd rather save the dough on the pres in the RME, and buy something a little nicer. NOt to mention, no breakout box...the lynx cards seem to have analog ins right into the card, not to mention digital ins as well. Do a search on them if you're interested- I've heard quite a hum about these things.
  20. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna Guest

    you pretty much said what i was gunna say for a mic an akg 451 as for the pre... a tube 737 from avalon as a GREAT choice!

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