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sampling tracks?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by mjatas, May 15, 2005.

  1. mjatas

    mjatas Guest

    Hey never been on for a long time a few months now and have one question about sampling tracks.

    I do not have sampling gear and wanted to know if there are any PC programs out there that do the same job. For example. I want to take a melodic trance song and remove the melody out of the song. How to do that and save the melody as a seperate wav or MP3 file and what program or programs do I use?

    THANKS GUYS!
    info@michaeljatas.ca
     
  2. Do the right thing and ask permission and pay the royalties first. You can get what you are looking for that way, generally speaking. Some of us get really pissy when we hear something that's ours.
     
  3. mjatas

    mjatas Guest

    I am not going to steel the stuff just use it for personal use and try to make similar sounds.
     
  4. axel

    axel Guest

    get your own ideas, including sounds.
    stealing sucks, i hate ordinary sampling for that!
     
  5. fontane

    fontane Guest

    that's a bad atittude dude... first of all, born and raised on hip-hop all i knew was sampling... you either sampled a drum loop, a guitar riff, bass line, or whatever... sampling is an art within itself...

    ALSO, arranging a variety of samples is considered REMIXING...

    either way mjatas, most producers (yes, even the ones who put records and cds out) sample from other peoples work... it's an easy explanantion for trends in the sound of a genre ie distorted kick drums, tight loop points, high hat loops, etc...

    my advice is to try digging through all of your favorite music and capture your favorite moments ie cool break down, banging drum loop, a single snare hit, a vocal snippet, whatever... just get the sounds...

    NOW, what should you use to get the sounds? try out Sound Forge:
    http://sweetwater.com/store/detail/SoundForge/ ask for Art Hill

    It's a great app, fairly cheap and will take care of everything you need to create your sample library from scratch...

    Some may suggest Recycle, but this is really good once you have all your sounds first...

    Don't be affraid to experiment... i write dance music but my collection of samples run through funk, 80s, house, 60s rock, whatever... as long as i like it... i SAMPLE IT...

    as for you trying to extract the sample from its original audio, EQ - but that still doesn't help that much... when you wish to do something like this, the best way is to SAMPLE IT and put it in your program and play a virtual instrument along with it to recreate it...

    hope this helps :) get sampling kid 8)

    OH, one last thing... write whatver you like using anyone's work that you wish... inspiraition and creativity should not be held back by formalities that will later be settled (sample clearance) by the labels licensing your potential hit song... just don't press it or mass copy it for sale
     
  6. By law, you still can't distribute any copies (free or not) until you receive clearance from the rights administrator. Period.
     
  7. fontane

    fontane Guest

    Period? that's quite defintive.

    what law is this brian? i work with several career producers and if they wish to create a song which may include a sample, they go ahead and do it. Once the song is finished, they bring it to a label or shop it to a label. If the label decides to buy or license the recording, the label then proceeds with clearing the rights through the appropriate channels. at this point, the recording is now ready for pressing and distribution.

    i am not so familiar with the industry that you work within, but coming from a hip-hop background and growing up within the nightclubs of nyc and participating within the the dance music business, i am unaware of any such laws that prohibit an artist/song writer etc from creating new works to showcase their talent to secure jobs, contracts, etc...

    i wouldn't know where either genre of music would be if it wasn not for dj promos, underground remixes, etc that get pushed through the night clubs. there are many white label records out there. there are DJs who may remix a song the night before they go and play it at a party for thousands of people, they by no means clear copyrights at this point.

    i am not trying to sound challenging, but in all due respect, you sound as if you speak from the books and not from personal experience within such genres that i discussed.

    i am familiar wih copyright laws, and i also do believe - it is fair game for talent to create works for their portfolio or demos that may contain works of others - be it a photograph for a backfrop of a "mock" ad to secure a gig as a designer at an agency or be it an upcoming remix artist who may have borrowed accapellas for a demo to showcase his arrangement and production skills to secure a release or contract.

    i also believe that there are civil and criminal differences in regards to use of copyrighted material ie the use of copyrighted material for personal financial gain (criminal) vs the use to showcase one's talents to a label (civil).

    at the end of the day, i think the point here is that if you decide to include pieces of coprighted material within your own works, and then wish to use these works to generate financial gain for ones self... you should be aware of licensing and how it works within your industry.

    also, in my personal opinion, i don't think it's causing any financial loss to the owner of a copyright from which you are using portions of within your works to secure a job or to play as a remix within a club.
     
  8. mjatas

    mjatas Guest

    If you take a sample beat, hi-hat or other sound it's okay, however if you take a specific melody or sound that a particular artists made himself and added it to his/her song and you take that composition then it is stealing. Only if you get that artists permission and pay to use it. That artist might get a percentage of rights from the song.
     
  9. mjatas

    mjatas Guest

    yes, man but how to take a sample out from a song and use it? I need sampling software. I do have soundforge I think version 7 or 8, but does it take a certain instrument or part out of a song? And if so how to do it exactly? I am not familiar too much with soundforge.
     
  10. axel

    axel Guest

    yes it is an artform in itself... i have never said it is not! dudes READ propperly before you complain!!!

    axel wrote:
    ORDINARY Sampling! right!!!

    if you use just the pure sounds, within sampling, then i agree, using whole loops, sorry i don't agree... sampling is fine IMO when you actually create,and not just puzzle other musicians creativity together... (my neck hairs stay up when i hear the word fruity loops or junglelator or reason!!! and yeas there are people who making whole albums withit!)

    mind you millions of people eating mc D everyday!!! that doesn't make it any good!!!

    i like Hip Hop, but for example not that kind of taking a 70's funk loop and putting a street beat underneath... sorry it doesn't work for me!

    sampling single notes of an instrument (or using them from a sample CD, and actually writing a piece of music e.g. beat, bassline or melody, YOURSELF fine...

    but that's only my 2two cents!!!

    ordinary Sampling SUCKS! even there are platinum albums sold with stealing...

    or people like DJ Shadow, sorry guys NOT my cup of tea!!!

    so i have bad attitude LOL

    p.s. i am totally into electronic music, all forms and own even a hardware yamaha sampler and a MPC.
     
  11. mjatas

    mjatas Guest

    I agree with you, however if you do use a sample or loop and you get consent from the artist or whoever made that sample/loop and you make millions off that song, why the hell not use it?
     
  12. axel

    axel Guest

    to make millions, it's just not my cup of tea, i am in the game because i love music, and really don't care if it sells or not, of cause i am happy if it sells, but it's not the driving force why i write and produce music...
     
  13. mjatas

    mjatas Guest

    I don't make music to make millions either, but if some miracle does happen and I do make millions, then why not?
     
  14. axel

    axel Guest

    yeah, hey why not!
    i don't see a reason on that either, the more people like my stuff the better...
    i personally love the fact that some people really getting big by doing it out of pure love and creativity... nothing wrong with that.

    i just don't like "manufactured mass music" which is born and created out of a how to sell / PR mind and not out of an artist / musician mind, and than became ridiculous successfull, for shure in my humble opinion nothing wrong with the second case, but with the first one, as already mentioned!
     
  15. fontane

    fontane Guest

    well, at least we all seem to agree on one thing... write music cause you love it... but hey, just because i like to play the opposite side of the fence sometimes, even those who are "selling out" love music, they just write music for people not for musicians...

    just think, even those who "sell out" and write "hits" must have talent or love because it is still years of dedication and hard work not to mention talent and skill...

    as for reason, fruity loops, etc... i agreed with you for the longest time but once i realized the point of making music is to express yourself, then by all means - whatever you use and however you use it as long as it works for you... is all good...

    i personally use DP, K2, MX4, etc and like to get granular with my work, but this could also be because im a techy geeky guy whereas the kid in his bedroom or the producer in his studio is more concerned about the feel and groove and not so worried about the tick or the opportunity to adjust a frequency by 3hz...

    i dunno, i think all music is a blessing and anyone who shares and or participates in this community or industry is amazing for what they do... be it loop based work or compositon work from the ground up... it really doesn't matter does it? our ears can't tell the difference... only musicians with education on the process complain about such... you never hear someone grooving on the dance floor saying... hey! they stole that vocal and then used that guys drum beats and what a lame decision to use that bass line... if that's what you think while the beats are rocking, something is wrong... just feel it...

    it's like the digital dj vs the turntable dj or analog vs digital or whatever... the point is tools evolve to make our life easier and more productive and different genres of music will forever be the off spring of such technologies... and so be it...

    don't hate, just create :)
     
  16. fontane

    fontane Guest

    there is no true extraction method... you need to either:
    a) buy the sheet music and play it yourself into a sequencer that you can later edit

    or

    b) transcribe it yourself then play it into the sequencer to be edited later

    this is where basic music theory comes in handy :) i would suggest getting a basic theory book, your favorite cd and sit in front of your keyboard and play along until it "sounds right"... then note what it is or record it and later look at the staff to see your composition...
     
  17. axel

    axel Guest

    hi fontane,
    i agree pretty much with the post you send before the last one, yes it is all about the creation, but i can't help myself that certain "easy" tools lead to so much crap, lots of all in one solutions just bring the crap out, if you are a musician and you use reason that's fine, but even as an absolut non musical person you can get some stuff out of progs like that just try and error long enough with the matrix sequencer presets, and here we go it sounds like hundred other tracks made in R, i just have a very strong quality aproach, and if i can i will try to encourage everyone to stick to the highest quality possible, even if as you pointed out "no one will hear it" mp3s are shite and millions of people can't tell the difference, i do, so that's why i DON'T use them, i even encourage clients to get their hands of that shite... if i can make a difference i will! and i will even fight for it!, because if no one does, we will end up with 2bit 1 khz hyper compressed all preset $*^t, only because t is convinient and doesn't take hd space or for whatever redicilous reason, yeas i have to agree that the DAW revolution brought over the years enormous quality, just remember the first audio softwares or plugs, horroble, but in our days wow... some stuff is as great as hardware...
    hope that some of the "all in ones" will be as well at some point.
    most people are like sheeps they "eat" what you give to them, give 'em shite they will eat shite, give 'em truffle they will eat truffle and maybee even learn how to appreciate truffle...
     
  18. o2x

    o2x Active Member

    In real terms Brian is right. In fact he doesn't go far enough. If you look at the legalese on any commercially released media you cannot do anything to your CD/DVD except listen to/watch it.

    However, there is legal precidence for copying your own CD's for backup - Ahem! have you ever done that??? Also provision for recording TV programmes, although you must destroy these within 30 days by law.

    Nevertheless, sampling exists and goes on without too much trouble. There have been several cases where publishers/artists have refused clearance for a sample. It's quite easy to get around this however by re-recording it. As long as it doesn't blatantly 'cover' a track then they have no comeback. Even though it can sound identical, there have been cases where the original artist has lost a legal battle because the sampler convinced the judge that the original song was in fact similar to a previous recording and it was the previous song which was the influence - not theirs!

    BTW sampling a loop or a hit, even a kick drum is illegal (although bloody hard to prove :wink: ) . It doesn't matter how long it is, you'll still be infringing copyright.

    Sampling is theft - but so is nicking a pencil from work! Many a musical genre would be non-existent if it weren't for this box of tricks (So would all your virtual instuments too!). And no...most cheesy pop would still be god awful even if it weren't for samplers!
     
  19. o2x

    o2x Active Member

    Sorry I wen't off on a rant before answering your question.

    To answer your question. It is extremely difficult to remove elements of a track.

    Bizzarrely the easiest thing to remove is generally the vocals due to the fact that they generally sit in the centre of the mix and other elements are panned either left or right in varying degrees. You can use phase reversal to accomplish this - although it is no way near perfect. Since the melodies in a typical trance track generally involve lots of stereo effects, this solution beomes near to impossible as the L/R signals need to be identical to work..
     
  20. fontane

    fontane Guest

    hee hee... that's one of the best things i have heard in a few weeks :lol:
     

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