1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

Setup and Monitoring help please

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Looby, May 3, 2007.

  1. Looby

    Looby Guest

    hey i have a big problem and am hoping you guys can help. i have a yamaha MG24/14fx and am tring to route it to a presounus firepod. i was told (and have later found out to be false) that i could run a TRS cable halfway into the insert jack and it would become a "direct out" that runs the input through the fader and eq and back out the insert jack. well i was planning on running my "direct outs" to my firepod and using the aux sends on the mixer for monitoring out to the mackie HMX56. i found out that running it this way the signal does NOT run through the eq or the fader soo....

    question #1 wtf is the point of the direct outs all i see it as is a XLR to 1/4" adapter built into a mixer...???

    i want to (best case senario) run 16 channels at the same time into 2 firepods linked and run the monitors through the Mackie HMX56. is there a way to do this? i want to be able to eq and adjust the volume of the mics and drums and such before they get to the firepod to save me some time eqing everthing in a program.

    right now the only way i can see running this would be to run all the channels out the 6 aux sends which means i would have to run the (ex.) lead vocals and backups together in sonar which would limit the flexability in my opinion. at this point i have no idea how to run the monitors for the mackie i have no problem with the kid in the studio having to deal with all vocals on one channel and all guitars on another but for running into sonar is unacceptable to me.

    please if there is a piece of equipment that will help me please tell me. i am on a LIMITED BUDGET so please take that into consideration when recomending a solution.

    if i can fix the "direct out" thing to work how i want it to please advise. if im not understanding how the direct out system works please help me out.

    i am struggling to understand this whole thing and keep getting crap advise from the guitar center guys and need some straight answers from people that know what they are talking about.
     
  2. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Some prefer to have an unaltered signal going to disc so that they can make adjustments after the fact rather than making permanent alterations to the signal which may or may not sound "right" the next day.

    YOu can route the stereo output of your DAW to any two outputs on either Firepod and connect your (powered?) monitors or amplifier there.
     
  3. Looby

    Looby Guest

    sorry to clarify when i say monotors i was meaning 3 channels of mixed down audio +mix from DAW that would do into the Mackie HMX 56 to run out to headohones for the artist to monitor with

    3 channels would probably go like this

    Mic 1\
    mic 2- Channel 1
    Mic 3/

    Lead Guitar \ Channel 2
    Rhythm guitar/

    Bass \ Channel 3
    Synth/

    Mix - channel 4

    i want to do this so i dont have to hear 'wah! i need more guitar/vocal/synth in my heaphones' i figure the artist can deal with it themselves
     
  4. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    So, you are able to get signal from the mixer to the firepod. Can't you just use the aux sends on the mixer to go to your headphones?
     
  5. Looby

    Looby Guest

    k i want to EQ my mics/guitar and stuff BEFORE it gets to Sonar and the Direct outs dont run through the EQ so i am having to mixdown all my 16 channels into the 6 aux sends to get them EQd. this being done i have used the aux send and cant use them for monotoring. i want to find a way to either mix the 7channels i want to monitor into 3 or (prefeably) i want to find a way to run the 16 channels SEPERATLY through the EQ and into the 2 Firepods so i can have 16 Seperate channels in sonar
     
  6. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Looby,

    I think you have been misinformed about the inserts on the MG24/14fx. Unusually for a mixer of this type, they are post-EQ, so using them as direct outs will do what you want. They are still pre-fader, but that should not affect what you want to achieve. Here's a link to the block diagram of the mixer:
    http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/mixers/mg32_24/pdf/MG32_14FX_block_level_diagram.pdf

    Now, next question: how do I take direct outs from an insert without breaking the signal chain to the rest of the mixer? Answer: use a cable with a TRS jack wired with T and R shorted together. You can either make them (I once spent a happy afternoon soldering up 24 channels of these to feed an Alesis HD24), or you can buy DOC106 adaptors from Hosa. Not everybody's favourite brand, but these are OK:
    http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSDOC10

    The point here is that the direct outs are at a standard level of +4dBu, all the needed gain differences between the channels having been taken up on the gain trims.
     
  7. Looby

    Looby Guest

    i have a TRS 8 channel snake and use it the way i am suppose to and i do not get use of the EQ why could this be? the signal is routed though the direct out and i can hear and record the signal but i can not alter it with the EQ
     
  8. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Did you read this part?

     
  9. Looby

    Looby Guest

    sorry i didnt understand what these things meant

    short the TR together

    how do I take direct outs from an insert without breaking the signal chain to the rest of the mixer?

    i understand very little about signal routing and dont understand signal chains or anything like that.

    will these adapters give me the ability to run a mic into the XLR jack and route it through the fader and EQ and back out the Insert jack?

    i have a TRS 8 channel snake as previously mentioned and was told that the TRS cable inserted halfway was the same thing as these adapters true false?
     
  10. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    As stated above, it will go through the EQ but not the main channel fader.

    Maybe. The half-way trick works with some mixers and some looms, but it is not reliable.
     
  11. Looby

    Looby Guest

    i have tried this and no luck it does not seem to go through the EQ could i have a setting on the mixer wrong?
     
  12. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Well, the Yamaha MG24/14FX and MG32/14FX diagram clearly shows the EQ before the insert point in the microphone input channels with no by-pass switch. In fact, there is no way signals can get from a microphone input to anywhere else in the mixer without going through the channel EQ.
     

Share This Page