setup of feedback eliminator pro

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by shredder1, Oct 26, 2007.

  1. shredder1

    shredder1 Guest

    i have a feedback eliminator pro dsp 1124p. my problem is that the book is not user friendly. i have a peavey xr 600 amp/mixer head. can any one guide me towards proper setup. thanks[
     
  2. Does the PV have an insert on each channel or the mains/monitors?

    Does the destroyer have a mic input?

    There are a few ways to hook them up but it depends on your system.

    I just looked at the system, it doesn't look like it has any way to hook it up other than to plug the mic into the unit. I don't think you can do that with that unit though. There are ones from Sabine that a mic can be plugged into.
     
  3. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Welcome to RO. I have to ask you this: why are you throwing ANY kind of box at a feedback issue in the first place? Feedback is much more an issue of gain-staging and mic/speaker placement. Are you using decent mics, like a Shure SM58 or a Sennheiser 835? Ditto with your speakers and their placement in relationship to the mics? You MUST learn how to minimize sound radiating from the speakers getting back to the mics. And if you are using cheap mics, the problem is greatly aggravated.

    How are you setting the built-in graphic EQ on the XR600? Are you rolling off the very lowest band(s) to minimize subsonic trash that can induce boom and howl? Are you boosting the upper mids to add "presence" to the vocals? The best anti-feedback device is your ears and your eyes.
    Learn the bands on your EQ and how they relate to the feedback they can help contain.

    What kind of music do you perform? Your ID name :"shredder1" tells me something. That little XR 600 was NEVER meant to be an amp for a metal rock'n'roll band in the first place. It was designed for "weekend warrior" country or pop bands in small clubs, or in a small church service. If you are having to crank that amps' level controls up to, say, over 40%, you are overdriving it and it's an uphill battle to get rid of feedback.

    As the owner of several Sabine units, feedback controllers-even the best of them- have limited useage in the first place. I use them for wireless spokespersons in conferences and such. For multiple mics in a live music situation, they are not that much use. These units, even the best of them, tend to be "confused" when fed more than one mic signal at a time. That's why Bigdaddy referenced the mic input deal.

    Finally, if you are hell-bent on trying to get this puppy to work on your rig, here's how you'll have to connect it to the XR600. This information is based upon what I could find on the Peavey site regarding the "XR600G" operators' manual. YMMV. Here goes:
    Take a shielded cable (like a short guitar cord) and run it from the "Main Out" on the XR to the input on one of the channels on the 1124.
    Now take another cable and run it from the line OUT on the 1124 to the "Power Amp In 1" on the Peavey. Do the same thing with the "Monitor Out" and "Power Amp In 2" jacks on the Peavey, using channel 2 on the 1124.
    Be sure to set the Graphic EQ on the mixer so that it is "flat"-no cut or boost on any bands. Failure to do this will confuse the 1124.
    And be prepared to return the box for a credit on a good mic...Good luck!
     
  4. Moonbaby have you tired that with the PV? I tried that with a Mackie unit and it did not work like an insert. It was just a parallel in/out setup. It did not cut the original connection.

    I don't know if that's going to work, I never tried it with a PV. I would call them and talk to a tech there.

    I think what you need is the DSP 110, that one you can plug the mic into if I am not mistaken. Trade the other one in and get that and a Shure SM57/58 if you don't already have one. The shark has a lot of other useful processors in it. I never used one but it does have the same feedback circuit as the one you have and they work. Plus it's cheap enough.

    The PV is only 200 watts and I'd be surprised if it's that much. Not much you can do volume wise and the EQ section probably works in a limited way.

    To get the most gain before feedback that kind of unit is a good idea and will let you get the most volume out of it. But I would recommend the Sabine unit you plug the mic into directly over the behringer, although it cost 3X as much so the Shark sounds like a good idea.

    That head is limited and you might be better off using it as a brain so to speak and buying a more powerful power amp. 200 watts is not enough to drive a descent set of speakers without getting a lot of distortion and feedback.

    If you do that you can plug it into the destroyer and then into the power amp then into the speakers. It will work very well like that. Even add a compressor after the feedback destroyer to get even more volume before feedback and a tighter sound. Although that compressor can give you more feedback some times.

    Can you just use one side of the EQ and use both power amps as monitors? It's kind of jury rigging it but it will sound a lot better for a minimal money outlay.
     
  5. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    These 'feedback destroyers' of ANY ilk or brand suck the life out of any sort of tone in a PA of any kind. Like Moon said, these are not meant to be fed a lot of differing signals but more for use on the corporate meeting/presentation side of reinforcement. Proper gain-staging and use of EQ will get rid of any feedback problems unless the system isnt designed to do what is being asked of it.

    I have a feeling that in this case, this is exactly the problem.
     
  6. Most people cannot afford the system they need to do the job. So they look for the easy quick $100 fix. Some times it's good enough to get by with.

    They are really needed when you work with amateurs who do things like point the mic straight at the tweeter in the monitor. Or just have poor mic technique.
     
  7. shredder1

    shredder1 Guest

    thanks guys for your help, i apreciate the advice and knowledge of you all.
     
  8. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    BigDaddy:
    Yes, I am, unfortunately, familiar with the XR600. I have one in my rental stock. You know, the wedding singer who needs a PA every 3 months...I include a Sabine Solo in the rig to protect the HF horns in the SOS boxes I provide. I call it "insurance". The Power Amp In is an interrupt-type circuit so that you can patch in an external processor.
    I have tried the Behr^&%r (our esteemed audiokid has requested that we not use the full name of the company. It screws up the RO search engine due to all of the posts trashing the line.) UltraCurve, the big daddy (no pun intended) to the Shark. What can I say, it was priced cheap. It was a joke. Nothing worked the way it was described. No headroom. The feedback eliminator was useless; by the time it honed-in on a feedback node, it was too late. I sold it off on craigslist. I have ONE piece of Behr&^*r. It is an older effects box that I bought for the vocoder feature. I paid $50 for it. I got my $$ worth. Cheap gear is no deal. I've run across few real "deals" in this business. Behr&^*^r is certainly not one of them.
     
  9. So the Shark is a lemon shark...he he he.

    I used the other bee ringer model and it worked. Once it feedback at a certain frequency it never did again. But before I sold everything I was saving to switch to the Sabine units. I sold all my systems to DJ's....:-(.

    I loved doing sound......until the business end ruined it. Having to deal with idiots and egotistical morons wore me out. Plus the fact I could not get help even though I paid top dollar.

    I know I will have as much if not more fun recording because the only people I have to deal with is ME.
     
  10. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    I hear ya, man. I get some students from Full Wail here in Gatorland from time to time. The attitudes! I pay better than any place they're gonna intern, and still...
     
  11. shredder1

    shredder1 Guest

    so the feedback pro is not able to be hooked up to the xr600? i tried but couldnt get a sound i saw the light blink evrytime i talked into mic but no sound. thanks
     
  12. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    I described how to hook the unit up using the Main Out (on the PV) going TO the INPUT on the feedback box. Then you take the OUTPUT from that box and send it back to the Peavey via the Power Amp Input on the XR600. I KNOW this works because, like I said, I have a Sabine patched into an (older) XR600 for renting out. In addition, I downloaded the newer XR600G's block diagram from Peavey just to verify this. The Power Amp Input IS an interruptable circuit. When you plug into the jack it overrides the mixer and takes the external source (which in this case, is the feedback box receiving the mixer signal). Something else is funky. Either the power amp mode switch is not set properly, or there's a setting issue with the output of the fb box.
    In any case, scrap this idea, take the box back and get a refund. And have your dealer teach you the best way to operate your rig so that feedback isn't a problem.
     
  13. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    I would never, ever use one of those things.

    We had a bunch around work; I took it upon myself one night to rip every one of the things out of the racks. :twisted:
    Now they sit on a shelf in my workshop, collecting dust, and no one misses them.
     
  14. Whatever you say.

    I disagree, when your job is on the line and if you have any feedback you will be replaced but you have to deal with morons who don't know how to use a mic.

    When you're doing the main mix on the side of the stage and have two monitor mixes too. You also have to deal with so many other issues at the same time. How about if you can't afford a soundman and have to preset the PA while you are playing in the band.

    In a perfect world yes they stink, when we live in a perfect world we won't need them When everybody can afford a sound system that costs tens of thousands of dollars we won't need them. When everybody that picks up a mic knows proper mic technique, we won't need them.

    When young idealistic people grow up we won't need them.

    So all I can say after reading some of your posts is get Bent.
     
  15. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Alrighty, then.

    I apologize if I upset you, that was not at all what I had intended to do.

    I agree with you, there are situations where they are a useful tool.

    I was looking at it more from a large stage perspective, where you have enough people and gear to get the job done.

    I apologize for sounding harsh or egotistical; Believe me, I have one of the smallest ego's in the business - I'm just happy to get my paycheck every week...
     
  16. Most people who run small sound systems need all the help they can get.

    Having the proper tools makes it easier. Most do not have the knowledge or those tools. Yes it is proper at this stage of the game to have computers and to analyze the sound of the room and all that. But most people do not have that. Most bands don't make enough money to hire someone who does.

    Live in the real world and realize it is the minority who can afford those luxuries.

    I feel we are here to help people, not to sit in a tower of idealism and provide useless information, it's pompous to do so.
     
  17. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Again, I am very sorry if I seem to come off that way. That is the sad reality of the electronic word - you don't hear someones tone, you only have a bunch of dead letters and words to be your guide.

    I have spent many, many years working all the dark, dusty bars and clubs around Florida. I spent those years working for beer and gas for the ride home. I (like you, I'm sure) spent many nights holding shows together with bits of duct tape and anything else the bar had available to get the show off the ground.

    The bands I worked with, and occasionally still do, hardly had the luxury of working vehicles to get them to the next gig, much less anything along the lines of a PA or recording gear...

    I mean no offense, in this post or any others you may have read.
     
  18. Itz cool dog.

    I just read some of the other things on some sites and can't believe my eyes. Does anybody other than some of the people here know what they are talking about?

    I really try and help if I know some thing and can pass it on. So many others just post to hear themselves or read themselves.

    So many 20-30 somethings who think they have the world figured out. You can unbend yourself now.

    No need to apologize to me.
     
  19. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Thanks!

    :)
     
  20. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    Wow...that was a shot at me from out of nowhere:)
     

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